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Author Topic:   What Is A Christian (Remix)
iano
Member (Idle past 194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 95 of 133 (426199)
10-05-2007 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Cold Foreign Object
10-04-2007 5:00 PM


Re: Phat & Jar: how we explain their "Christianity"
Phat writes:

In an off topic rant in the Discussion of Moderation thread, Iano made this comment:

As Ray says Phat, there were no rant. Rant involves expression of anger, hatred, frustration and none of these emotions where present when I wrote what I wrote. Jar does what Jar does and it's as plain as the nose on my face. I would not go so far as Ray and imply that Jar is beyond redemption however - he is lost but he can be found (i sincerely hope)

Nor would I go so far as Ray and say that you (like Jar) are not saved. I haven't read you enough to comment and what I have read would incline me to think you are indeed saved. Any suspicion I might have to the contrary, would rest not on the fact that you align yourself with evolutionists but more on the fact that you align yourself with atheists (and "double-agents" like Jar).

If you are a Christian you should be troubled by the world, be at emnity with the world, feel yourself alien in this world (as a citizen of heaven). You should despise yourself for conforming to the pattern of this world (even if at times you can't help but do so). I don't detect that trouble in you.

Instead you seem to want to bed the world. Lie down with all and sundry. Perhaps your gifting is peacemaking (for that runs through all you write). If so it should not be at any cost. If you are a Christian you fight on one side. You can be fair and honourable and decent but a soldier you must be all the same. Not a friend to the enemy

{AbE} I should have put it so...

Ray writes:

5th columnism is simply a synonym or variation of "double agent." The concept of double agent has a person feigning loyalty to one entity while seeking its destruction from within. Jar fits the bill perfectly. He argues against the veracity of the Bible tooth and nail. Logically real Christians do the exact opposite.

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 10-04-2007 5:00 PM Cold Foreign Object has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-05-2007 4:51 PM iano has responded
 Message 105 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 10-05-2007 6:00 PM iano has responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 98 of 133 (426208)
10-05-2007 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Thugpreacha
10-05-2007 4:51 PM


Re: Phat & Jar: how we explain their "Christianity"
Phat writes:

My observation was that not all Christians believe that one needs to be saved

Hmmm. Could you name the cult who believes otherwise?

Further, not all denominations of Christianity believe that the Bible is inerrant. Can one side claim the moral high ground in that regard?

The Bible? Could you show me a copy? I mean a copy of the inerrant copy the inerrantists adhere to?

The way I see it Phat? My girl has a '96 Ford Fiesta parked outside her house which is having its brake discs replaced tomorrow. Without error is it? No! Does it fulfill all its essential functions (and more) despite this? Yes.

Inerrant enough - for those who can discern. For those who cannot there is hope in Jesus Christ.

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-05-2007 4:51 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Brian, posted 10-06-2007 5:39 AM iano has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 100 of 133 (426212)
10-05-2007 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Thugpreacha
10-05-2007 4:51 PM


Re: Phat & Jar: how we explain their "Christianity"
So who is this enemy?

Everyone who is not saved. Jar, Percy, Dr Adequate, Schraf, PaulK, Chiroptera, Larni, Omnivorous...RobinRohan when he was around..etc.

People. Plenty of 'em

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-05-2007 4:51 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by ringo, posted 10-05-2007 5:19 PM iano has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 103 of 133 (426227)
10-05-2007 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by jar
10-05-2007 5:20 PM


Re: Phat & Jar: how we explain their "Christianity"
Jar writes:

What a telling response. Enemy! So funny.

What a biblically ignorant response. Tragic.

If your wondering whether you are indeed saved Phat (and the saved can well wonder at times) then this exchange might tell you.

Which side do you fall on of the two?

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 10-05-2007 5:20 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 10-05-2007 5:48 PM iano has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 106 of 133 (426238)
10-05-2007 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Cold Foreign Object
10-05-2007 6:00 PM


Re: Phat & Jar: how we explain their "Christianity"
Ray writes:

I never said any person (much less Jar) was beyond redemption. What I did say was to explain how Jar could think of himself as a Christian while arguing against the Bible like any given Atheist might do.

Which is why I used the word 'imply'. It implied a sense of uncertainty on my part and I am glad you clarified. Sometimes in the heat we can sound absolutist without meaning to.

Jar is not a Christian - we seem to be agreed that he is a 5th columnist - whereas the average Joe here is 'simply' lost. I think many of the brethern have tried to wiggle their way around Jar and have found themselves throwing Jello at a wall (*Jello slithers down walls*)

As for Phat... The Bible says if the secular world approves of you or the religious status quo then you are walking with Satan.

Yes it does. But I reckon this to lay on the non-essential side of the essential divide. I know what you mean re: Phat's oil-on-(any and all) troubled-water-attitude. But I also know of those who are in the faith other than I am in the faith.

I am aware that in the measure I am "strong and uncompromising" others are "weak and lily-livered". I imagine only Jesus walked the perfect line between the two.

You know that too.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 10-05-2007 6:00 PM Cold Foreign Object has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by anglagard, posted 10-05-2007 8:13 PM iano has responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 108 of 133 (426273)
10-05-2007 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by anglagard
10-05-2007 8:13 PM


Re: Phat & Jar: how we explain their "Christianity"
AG writes:

I find it interesting how I have discussed the meaning of Christianity with jar in chat for several dozen hours. I find his belief that God made the ultimate sacrifice by becoming human in the form of Christ far more admirable and perhaps even plausible, than any other explanation. I also believe that people like Jar and Ringo want to make people think about their beliefs as opposed to any demand that all must unquestioningly follow anyone who claims personal infalliblity.

I don't claim personal infallibility (apparently the Pope does). Rather, I proclaim myself to tell (as best I know how) the truth. Perhaps Jar and Ringo also proclaim. Assuming they get to claim as well as me: you get to chose who 'most' represents the truth.

Lets not forego YOUR choice in all this. In retrospect it's key.

In other words, perhaps if you actually sought to understand how jar thinks you would ask as opposed to claim perfect knowledge of his heart and condemn him without any desire to understand. Perhaps you may then stand on firmer ground in regard to your opinions concerning his religious beliefs.

Different subject and level. When it comes to Jar the conclusion is obvious. Not to you perhaps. But then again you are lost so there is a worldly excuse for you not seeing it.

Your major presupposition is that all float in the same boat as you. But we don't. That should not be taken as meaning "better than you" or "more advanced than you". Far from it. You could as well end up "greater" than me in the Kingdom of Heaven..as not. That I have been 7 years a Christian and you could, in 3 years time, end up a Christian counts for (delightfully)... nought.

As to Phat, whom I have also discussed Christianity with for many hours on chat, I find his almost childlike faith in God to be quite charming if not as comprehensively and ruthlessly self examined as jar's. Plus, just because Phat appears to have an agreeable and pleasant personality, is that grounds to dismiss the nature of his personal relationship with God?

The grounds are not the nature of the relationship. The grounds are the basis on which it is formed. Phat is borderline in my own opinion. He is so in bed with God's declared enemies it becomes problematic as to which side he is fighting on. An apprentice to Jar-think. Or a Christian. One day all will find out.

, from what little I can know of you from your posts, with all the self-righteous judgment of others, all I can say is I hope you come off as more likeable in person. I am not impressed by any individual theology that begins with 'my way, or the highway' or 'how dare you question ME.'

Question away...

Baptists around here make a big deal about the question "What would Jesus do?" From what I understand, Jar has helped build churches and is currently creating websites for several for free. Phat is currently volunteering his time counseling troubled youth in prison.

Great!! God help them should they consider their work to have a thing to do with entrance to heaven. I know that Jar thinks so ("I'm trying a stairway to heaven"). Phat? Dunno.

My question to you Iano is, considering how much you appear to negatively judge others as to the quality of their actions in regard to Christianity, what have you done lately?

Nothing of note. Thank God salvation is by faith and not by works

Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by anglagard, posted 10-05-2007 8:13 PM anglagard has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Vacate, posted 10-06-2007 7:05 AM iano has not yet responded
 Message 113 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-06-2007 1:12 PM iano has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 194 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 126 of 133 (536450)
11-23-2009 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Thugpreacha
11-21-2009 7:48 AM


Re: Source versus Content
Phat writes:

Funny, as I reread these old topics, but we indulge in exactly the same arguments today!

It's not an argument Phat - and it never will be. It's the blindness which is manifested by unadulterated unbelief.

Suspend-a-Jar writes:

Some friends meet on the beach for a fish fry becomes they meet for a fish fry but forgot the fish. They pull in a net and wow, it is full of fish.

Imagination and embellishment.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-21-2009 7:48 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
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