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Author Topic:   What Is A Christian (Remix)
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 4247 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 16 of 133 (425903)
10-04-2007 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by ringo
10-04-2007 12:49 PM


Also, Jesus said that the only way to the father was through him (Jesus).

Jesus said that no man cometh unto the Father but by the Way, the Truth and the Life. The Wayâ„¢ is the message, not the messenger.

Really? Let's see if Christ himself agrees with that assessment...

John 14:5-7

5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6Jesus answered, "I AM THE WAY and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

Believe what you want but get your facts straight. How can one call themself Christian (literally follower of Christ) and deny Christ's own words?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by ringo, posted 10-04-2007 12:49 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Brian, posted 10-04-2007 1:27 PM mjfloresta has not yet responded
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 10-04-2007 1:39 PM mjfloresta has responded

    
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 4247 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 19 of 133 (425910)
10-04-2007 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
10-04-2007 1:39 PM


First, I've been talking about being Christian, not about claiming to be Christian.

Allow me to rephrase then:

How can someone be a christian (literally a Christ-follower) what Christ himself proclaimed to be the way?

Second, I already said that we don't have to swallow hook-line-and-sinker what people say about Christ (or what they claim He said).

But that is the picture of Christ that we have, like it or not. If you strip away the historical picture of who Christ was, what is left? You haven't replaced one concept of the historical figure with another, you've erased him. Which leaves one nothing to be a follower of..


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 10-04-2007 1:39 PM ringo has responded

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 Message 21 by ringo, posted 10-04-2007 2:15 PM mjfloresta has responded

    
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 4247 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 20 of 133 (425911)
10-04-2007 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
10-04-2007 1:39 PM


Perhaps you aren't familiar with the definition of a metaphor:

I'll put the verses in the form of an equation so you can't miss it:

I (Jesus) = The Way, The Truth, The Life; No man comes to the Father but by me (Jesus). There is no possible way to deny this straightforward linguistic analysis.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 10-04-2007 1:39 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 4247 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 22 of 133 (425917)
10-04-2007 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
10-04-2007 2:15 PM


I'm afraid your understanding of metaphor is deficient. You're restricting "the way" to a definition of the word (a literal one) which is completely inappropriate to the context of the metaphor.

There's another meaning of the word "way" which is perfectly conducive to the context of the metaphor - namely "a course or direction leading to an objective".

Two comments:

1. The second definition is the vastly more-common contemporary usage.

2. The second definition is the clear usage of the word given the context.

What you've done is go far beyond the context of the metaphor and the allowable definition of the word.

Let's suppose Christ wasn't saying the he was the way, but merely that he was like the way; I fail to see any discernable distinction between the two ideas...

But you're going way past this...

You're changing "I am the way" to "I am like the way" to "I am like a way" to "I'll show you the way" to I'll show you any possible way" to "Where did you say you were going?

Are we reading from the same book, here?

Edited by mjfloresta, : Emphasis

Edited by mjfloresta, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by ringo, posted 10-04-2007 2:15 PM ringo has responded

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mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 4247 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 28 of 133 (425929)
10-04-2007 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by ringo
10-04-2007 2:46 PM


The problem I have with your interpretation is your insistence on only one way. If He was comparing Himself to a road, that automatically implies more than one road. All roads might lead to Rome, but there's no such thing as "one road", only networks of roads.

There's no "change" there at all. That's what the metaphor implies, unless you insist a priori on your interpretation and yours alone. When the driver says, "Yes, this is the bus to New Jersey," you'd be the one who's overreaching if you insisted it was the only bus to New Jersey.

It's has nothing to do with me saying that there's "one road" or my "a priori" interpretations. It's what Jesus said: I am the way, the truth, the life; "No one comes to the Father except through me". How much more un-ambiguous can the text be? How many roads is Jesus allowing for? And how can one be a Christian who denies the only way (means, path, direction..) according to Christ himself???


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