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Author Topic:   I'm trying: a stairway to heaven?
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 99 of 303 (256025)
11-01-2005 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by iano
11-01-2005 10:35 AM


Re: Love with all your heart
Iano writes:
"Harder for a rich man...than a camel to get through the eye of a needle"
You think it is possible for a camel to get through the eye of a needle then Legend
Hi again Iano. I don't want to get into the middle of this really but I always thought it was widely accepted that the reference to "eye of a needle" was actually a geographic reference to an extremely narrow entrance into the city of petra.
quote:
The common error for those who read this passage, is twofold: first, that Christ is alluding to a camel passing through a hole the size of a sewing needle’s eye; second, that wealth is in some way the arbitrary licence for damnation. With regard the first case, “the eye of a needle” is in fact a geographic location, an extremely narrow canyon entry to Petra, that caravans passed through in order to travel to this ancient and wealthy trade city and so arrive at its grand Treasury building.
This is from a catholic web site BTW. just the first one on the google list.
Just wondered if you were aware of this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by iano, posted 11-01-2005 10:35 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by iano, posted 11-01-2005 12:58 PM PurpleYouko has replied

PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 101 of 303 (256029)
11-01-2005 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by iano
11-01-2005 12:58 PM


Re: Love with all your heart
A Catholic website... hmmm. I wonder why Jesus (allegedly) picked something that caravan after caravan of camels were patently able to do when he chose it to illustrate how difficult something else was.
I always took it to mean that it was difficult but not impossible.
That was the way it was always taught when I was young. Not sure what the general Catholic teaching is on the subject.
Incidentally when I googled the subject, I came up with another reference to a very small gate in the walls of Jurusalem which was apparently known as "The eye of the needle". Camels in a caravan had to be completely unloaded before they could pass through it, then loaded up again.
That sounds pretty difficult to me.
Hey PY. I saw your name appear on the loggedins and thought I'd look up where you wus as and you were gracing my thread. I am honoured.
I hang around in the background reading stuff quite a bit but don't post too often. Funny how it always seems to be threads that you are involved in that attract my attention.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by iano, posted 11-01-2005 12:58 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by iano, posted 11-01-2005 1:23 PM PurpleYouko has not replied

PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 130 of 303 (256173)
11-02-2005 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by iano
11-02-2005 5:45 AM


Re: Jesus gave directions
But the cop IS part of a group. He is a Christian. And a Christian has all his sins forgiven. Every single one. Past, present, future. The Christian is no longer under the law. He is freed from law. He cannot come under judgement by the law. He is going to heaven. Period. Everytime he gets stopped speeding, Christ pays his ticket
This is precisely the reason why I despise what Christianity stands for.
Mr. X made an incredibly good point in his post. The attitude that Christians are a cut above everybody else just because they are member of an elite club and that God is just going to forgive whatever they do, utterly sucks and drives away a whole bunch of otherwise good people.
A God who would set up such a system is a God of corruption whom I would NEVER serve under any circumstances.
I even have a personal example of this attitude.
I have a very religious friend who has two sons. A couple of years ago i was working with these two boys to clear the snow off my driveway (after their father sent them over to help). At the time the elder was 14 and the younger was 11.
The two boys began arguing about something and the elder one swung his snow shovel at the younger one's head. It connected but thankfully did little damage.
Later when I asked the elder boy why he had done it, he replied.
"Because I am a Christian and I know that Jesus will forgive me when I ask him to in my prayers. I know I will still go to heaven, no matter what I do."
This attitude totally disgusted me and strengthened my resolve against this (IMO) evil belief system.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by iano, posted 11-02-2005 5:45 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by iano, posted 11-02-2005 10:16 AM PurpleYouko has not replied
 Message 132 by iano, posted 11-02-2005 10:23 AM PurpleYouko has replied

PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 133 of 303 (256196)
11-02-2005 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by iano
11-02-2005 10:23 AM


Re: Jesus gave directions
A couple of problems with this. Firstly, saying your a Christian doesn't make you one - so we can't tell whether this guy was one or not.
Secondly, although a Christian has all sin forgiven he is not left to own devices. He gets the Holy Spirit and undergoes sea changes. He comes to hate sin more and more, comes to recognise his sin more and more. If a person thinks Christianity is a licence to sin then try it. You may be in for a shock
And this is precisely my point.
That was the point that Mr. X was making too (I think)
I don't for one moment imagine that all people who claim to be Christians, share your beliefs or act the way that you say a true Christian does.
In fact i would go so far as to say that the vast majority of Christians just pay lip service and never really live the life that you describe. They all claim to be Christian. They all live by the belief that they are saved because they are baptised and go to church. These are the people i have a real problem with and you are right that when the time comes (assuming there is a God) they are going to get one big shock.
The problem is that for people like me, looking in from the outside, is that organised religion is absolutely full of these people.
A lot of people seem to believe the things you are saying about how to become saved but not the method by which it can happen. To them it just appears to be a license to be as nasty as they like in the sure knowledge that they will be forgiven.
It's kind of like being in the Masons. Membership may get you all the opportunities but I would still reject that membership because i don't like what it stands for. The corruption of such a system sickens me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by iano, posted 11-02-2005 10:23 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by gene90, posted 11-02-2005 10:46 AM PurpleYouko has replied
 Message 137 by iano, posted 11-02-2005 10:55 AM PurpleYouko has not replied

PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 135 of 303 (256207)
11-02-2005 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by gene90
11-02-2005 10:46 AM


Re: Jesus gave directions
In some cases you have "faith only" (no good behavior needed) actually being incorporated into the theology.
Of that I have no doubt.
My point is that the forefront of organized Christianity is largely composed of people who go to church, sing the hyms, make the confessions, mouth the prayers, then go right back to doing what it is they always did in the certain belief thet they are now saved
The few who really live the life because they have genuine "faith" are lost in the crowd.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by gene90, posted 11-02-2005 10:46 AM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by gene90, posted 11-02-2005 10:53 AM PurpleYouko has not replied

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