How do we know God is "Good"?

riVeRratIn response to this. Let us adjust crashfrogs staement slightly. To this situation we add that the children are told not to play with the gun else death could ensue and then the scene unfolds in tragedy then are we still not responsible?

riVeRrat I was hinting at the Adam and Eve in the Garden myth.From this arguement the christian world claims that the whole world sins by default. The analogy would be that Adam and Eve are the children ,the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the gun.God set up the situatuon.Can you show that God gave them knowledge of the consequence of an evil act{eating of the tree}that they might be responsible for their actions before they ate from the tree?

riVeRrat Having not eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil how can they have done something wrong without the understanding of what that is? Just as children have no idea neither could they.What possible meaning could death have for them without an understanding of death?This message has been edited by sidelined, 11-08-2004 06:33 PM

riVeRrat But that is my point. If they already knew of good or had it explained to them what would be the point of a tree of knowledge of good and evil? In order to be consistent with the previous examples you must include a third party knowledgable of the danger that does nothing in the way of preventing the event.If you placed an adult in the same room who is not only aware of the danger but is aware of the event occuring and watches it occur yet does nothing to prevent it then we would have something akin to the biblical account.I maintain that a god who is fully aware of the outcome and then punishes the participants{his children}when they choose the outcome he was fully aware and which he made available to them when they lack of proper knowledge to make a decision is resonsible fully for the outcome.This is a god you would worship.Pity.This message has been edited by sidelined, 11-08-2004 10:41 PM

jar In what way does it make us different sir?

jarNot a problem my good man.I will take some time to do just that, though at the rate I have been reading lately I will probably have to open up a new topic to respond as this thread will probably clear 300 by then.LOL Thanks.

riVerrat Heck and darnation RR. My point is that telling them not to touch it is as meaningless as it is to tell a child since at that point had no KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL and so were incapable of knowing that it was bad.How could they know that death was a BAD thing since they had no knowledge of such a concept BEFORE eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

RiVeRrat Then why would it be a deterent? In a world where presumably Adam has never seen a person die what could he possibly relate it to? I am not twisting it. The words stand in the bible written as such.You,however,continue to bring up scenarios that are not related to events in the bible by way of analogy and these do not properly reflect thje entire scheme of things faced.Adam was the first person according to the bible so he has no larger society or experience upon which to weigh things presented to him.

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"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."
--Don Hirschberg

RiVeRratGood answer RR,That clears things up immensely.

riVeRrat OK So before eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you are saying that Adam was capable of understanding the consequences of an action he undertook. I am stating that without the knowledge of such things one is incapable of making an informed decision just as a child would be.
We do not hold childern responsible for their actions and in the context of the myth of eden god was wrong {since he had knowledge of his actions}for punishing Adam for disobeying a command that Adam could not know the ramifications of.

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"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."
--Don Hirschberg

riVeRrat Oh really?!! Would you care to explain why he was punished then for something evil when you agree with me that he had not an idea of evil? He did not die either so what was that about?

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"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."
--Don Hirschberg

Of course he would die just like us. He was mortal according to the bible.Yet you reflect the idea that Adam was given mortality as a punishment when this is not the case.Why would you punish a person with death for taking a choice that you did not like when you set up the ability to choose in the first place and then tempted the person.Think,man,is this the work of a moral being?

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"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."
--Don Hirschberg

riVeRrat Why is it you won't take your own advice and put yourself in Adam's shoes? He had no bad to compare to did he?We have a a world with examples to gauge by and Adam did not.Why do you refuse to directly answer my questions?

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"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."
--Don Hirschberg

riVeRratJHC man I am not an idiot! I read and understood your point about the death is not evil but that death would be bad for Adam and he should have realized it.You however are focusing in the wrong place.Adam could NOT have known about bad before he partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of GOOD and evil.You yourself are aware of this and even stated so in post 178 The converse is also true.Bad cannot exist without the good since it is necessary in order to compare the two to gauge the relative aspects of their existence.Hence Adam could not have known it was bad for him to die and bad for him to eat the fruit in EXACTLY the same way a child is not capable of such.You still have not directly answered other questions as I presented them to you.

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"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."
--Don Hirschberg

riVerrat That cannot fly either because the tree was not evil it was the fruit that contained knowledge of good and evil,therefore Adam cannot know evil before eating of it.Otherwise there is no point to the trees existence.This message has been edited by sidelined, 11-15-2004 12:15 AM

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"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."
--Don Hirschberg