Sky Daddy Cult

Your quotemines don't seem to support your point.Read a little further in Proverbs:

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Pro 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
Pro 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
Pro 3:13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.

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Happy is the man that groweth up. That's why the father correcteth him - so he will grow up and take charge of his own conscience.And:

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Psa 118:9 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.
Psa 118:10 All nations compassed me about: but in the name of the LORD will I destroy them.

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The context is a mature warrior trusting in God as an ally, not a babe in arms depending on mommy/daddy.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels

Don't you think that a person can both be mature and trust in the Lord on a daily prayerful communion basis?

Sure, but trusting your bed-ridden earth-daddy and communing with him on a daily basis isn't what you've been advocating, is it? Why does trust and communication have to involve swinging from apron-strings?

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Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

so who says Im swinging from apron strings?I try and pray every day, but I dont treat God like Major Nelson treated Jeannie! I believe that God gives me the wisdom I need to mature. My point is that God is a loving Father....not some distant omnipotant mega-bundle of energy halfway across the universe!

Get your pop culture straight. Jeannie was not a father figure.You treat God more like Sonny Drysdale treated his father (or mother). But you keep telling us that you only want to mature so far. You don't mind maturing from Opie Taylor to Richie Cunningham, but you don't want to be the real Ron Howard and make your own movie. That isn't the topic.

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Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

lolAgain, isn't "making our own movie" the same thing as the ye shall be as gods syndrome?I agree that God does not expect us to go toddling around holding His almighty hand like wee babes, but I also don't believe that He simply expects us to do anything we imagine to do without consulting Him via some form of communion--be it prayer or meditation.God knows that we are well capable of achieving "anything that we imagine" if we so imagine it. Years ago, scoffers said that we would never walk on the moon. Scoffers laughed at the idea of words and messages traveling through the air.All of this happened,because we imagined and followed through on our discoveries.Dad just wants to counsel us on wise decisions. After all, im sure He is not proud of the H-Bomb!

"Ye shall be as gods" isn't a syndrome. It's the choice that Adam and Eve made. It's why God gave them - and us - free will. It's the choice He wants us to make. So you keep saying over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. There's no doubt that that's what you believe, Richie. What I'm asking is, "Why is it so bad to be Ron?" Why (and how) have you picked an arbitrary spot for your development to come to a screeching halt? And all because we didn't listen to the "communion" that told us to be afraid. We have stolen fire from the gods.

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Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

So are you suggesting that perhaps God wants us to choose freely, even if it causes us to go down a less desired path?I dunno....I simply can't accept the idea that God is a deistic Creator who simply has better things to do than to guide us into our destiny and purpose. IF He expects us to do it all on our own, why the need for Jesus?

No. I was at a hospice this last week watching a close friend die. The family was there. Many people came and went and there was lots of prayer.While people are mature enough to realize that God wont fix everything and that death is another part of life, people realize that communion(communication) with God is an ongoing and necessary part of life. It also bonds us together as humans. You, however, may have a different form of communion---perhaps one such as Stiles that involves only humans.

You keep saying that but never explain how it is happens or how you can know you are communicating with God.

This quote does use the child/infant metaphor, but I think there is a distinction to be made. Every relationship is expected to mature over time, and the Christian relationship, however it is properly characterized is no different. We expect a Christian to progress from the minimum required to invoke God's grace (say a John 3:16 based relationship) to one based on all of Jesus teachings. That growth is what Paul refers to here. Without that progress Christianity is just that get out of jail free philosophy.As far as the "Sky Daddy" title to this thread, I would be hard pressed to come up with a more derisive or disdainful way to describe someone. I'm curious to see how many flies this vinegar will attract.

You flew after it, despite it being nearly seven years stale. The maturation of a Christian faith does not begin at John 3:16or the likeand progress toward the following of Jesus' teachings. It is completely the opposite: Faith begins with following Jesus' teachings to do what is right; it grows into personal salvation by God's grace.Paul mentions the path at least a couple of times in his letters; he argues that by living and dying like Jesus, he and his followers hope to have a resurrection (= salvation by God's grace) like Jesus.Reading the rest of the Hebrew passage in question, we see that the author is frustrated that he must reiterate to his readers things he feels they should already know. But the basic knowledge they already have is not the 'minimum required to invoke God's grace', it is the knowledge of Jesus' teachings on the treatment of others.To the author of Hebrews it is clear that following the teachings of Jesus is the starting point, not the end:

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Hebrews 6:10—11 (KJV):

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For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

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The workthe labor of love, to minister to othersis where the followers are at; it is the basic aspect of their faith. The author pushes them to go even further, to try to understand mentally, emotionally, and spiritually the significance of it all, the 'John 3:16 based relationship' as you put it.Paul preaches, and the author of Hebrews takes as given, that an understanding of God's salvation through Jesus begins with the doing of God's work as taught by Jesus. Neither derision nor disdain was intended. The term is one which, at the time, Phat, jar, and I used regularly as a label for a particular style of Christianity that treats God as an ever-busy repairman, dutifully scurrying from believer to believer fixing his particular problems with his mighty powers; at the same time it captures the 'Jesus take the wheel' mentality of spiritually lazy Christians who tout their helplessness as righteous.Jon

Paul was not talking hypothetically. He was talking specifically about the problems he observed at the church at Ephesus. And what you are saying is not what either Paul says or what the Bible teaches.Faith begins with the step of attempting to follow Christ, and it grows from there. Converts to Christianity do not begin their walk with a full knowledge of Christ's teachings, and it is unreasonable to expect that they would. I note that the thread had less than 30 messages in it after seven years. Then you've gathered the intent of the passage. The use of the metaphor of babes and milk does not refer to the relationship to a Father, but instead to the spiritual growth of the church. Labeling Christians "spiritually lazy" and "helpless" is so close to being derisive and disdainful as to be indistinguishable from them.

I hope the ordeal wasn't too traumatic on anyone.
But, really, I don't see how this single example concludes in an absolute "No." answer to ringo's question. Some people do, yes.
Some people don't.Does this mean that it's always necessary and those who don't think so are wrong?
Does this mean that it's always not-necessary and those who think it is required are wrong?
Perhaps the question is a bit silly.I don't see anything concrete that points us in one direction or the other.
I do see lots of people choosing their own path and working out just fine... on both sides.That would lead us to believe that it doesn't matter which way you decide, since... there is no absolute consequence one way or the other.Best to figure out which one works best for you and try not to force your own ideas onto other people. Is that how I come off? That's... unfortunate.

Unfortunate? No...just unique and relative to you the individual. Am I incorrect in my assessment?