Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,422 Year: 3,679/9,624 Month: 550/974 Week: 163/276 Day: 3/34 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   YEC vs. EVO presuppositions / methodology
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4015 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 29 of 300 (262118)
11-21-2005 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by randman
11-21-2005 5:13 PM


Re: technology levels
And there are those that even come to faith in the Bible and Christ as a result of a more objective analysis, such as McDowell or CS Lewis (I believe), but on the whole, it is difficult to test the things of the Bible and God without involving faith, and that's hard for the evo side to see.
Not hard for us to see at all, Randy. You keep forgetting many of us come from a Christian background and have experienced all the nonsense you propose. Why should we give credence to a faith we have determined is false. Should we give equal time to all wacko beliefs just because they involve faith? What give Christian faith any more credibility than say the 'cargo cult' of New Guinean natives?
Let`s narrow it down. You have two things going for you. A book that lacks provenance, is riddled with errors and contradictions, has little basis in archaeology or external evidence, makes claims that never eventuated, proposes miracles that dried up with the closure of the book, offers prophecies that are so vague, one can apply them to various times without fear of contradiction, has been tampered with and exists in many variants, fails to acknowledge the real world, offers no cures to the main dangers of this existence, can`t help anyone beyond an individual`s subjective needs, ignores the development of human intellect,gives power to an elite, provides justification for evil done by its followers,and, worst of all, continues to reinforce utter selfishness in instructing an individual to seek salvation for Numero Uno alone.
The second factor you wield like a sword is faith in the individual experience. 'It happened to me so you have to trust I am telling the truth. No, there`s no evidence, just my experience and if you don`t believe me, you have no faith. Worse still, you are going to hell for doubting me'. Now what basis is this for debating or communicating? You want to load the bases and have us give you an easy ball? C`mon, laddie, the world is full of shonks and you sound just like them.
Btw, I wouldn`t flaunt Old Josh if I were you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by randman, posted 11-21-2005 5:13 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by randman, posted 11-21-2005 6:22 PM Nighttrain has replied

Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4015 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 35 of 300 (262128)
11-21-2005 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by randman
11-21-2005 6:22 PM


Re: technology levels
Just want to correct one thing in that rant. The miracles did not die out with the Bible, but are on-going in the faith community walking in such things, and we see the same sorts of things Jesus saw his time, except maybe turning the water into wine and walking on water.
But maybe that's happening somewhere too, for all I know.
I know I've seen enough bona-fide miracles as to not doubt they occur anymore.
Oh, really? Care to show a bit of evidence of a cure of leprosy in our age by laying on hands? Any dead been restored lately? Any demons into pigs going around?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by randman, posted 11-21-2005 6:22 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by randman, posted 11-21-2005 7:00 PM Nighttrain has replied

Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4015 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 47 of 300 (262169)
11-21-2005 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by randman
11-21-2005 7:00 PM


Re: technology levels
No film at 11?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by randman, posted 11-21-2005 7:00 PM randman has not replied

Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4015 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 49 of 300 (262174)
11-21-2005 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by robinrohan
11-21-2005 8:29 PM


Re: Reiteration: This is not a debate
I suppose it presupposes the validity of the scientific method.
Probably true, originally, but the success of millions of experiments and applications surely validates the approach?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by robinrohan, posted 11-21-2005 8:29 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Ben!, posted 11-21-2005 8:42 PM Nighttrain has not replied

Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4015 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 172 of 300 (262818)
11-24-2005 6:53 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by IrishRockhound
11-23-2005 2:50 PM


Re: Premise
That said, I'm getting tired of this constant pile-on of evolutionists. I happen to think that there is more to EvCForum than arguing science
Obviously, you aren`t paying attention to a lot of threads, where we challenge the concept of 'A' Bible, not on scientific grounds, but on the historical texts, lack of provenance, mis-translations, faulty interpretations, ignorance of contrary texts,dismissal of textual strands, scribal errors, redactions, text out of context, conflations, etc

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by IrishRockhound, posted 11-23-2005 2:50 PM IrishRockhound has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by IrishRockhound, posted 11-24-2005 7:47 AM Nighttrain has not replied

Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4015 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 247 of 300 (263187)
11-26-2005 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by RAZD
11-26-2005 12:23 AM


Re: Perceptions of Reality
Sorry, Big Guy, but in your collection of party balloons, you left out the one for the wonderful world of delusion. You know,beliefs so far from reality they are discussed in shrink textbooks. So we should allow equal time and premises for all the wacky worlds out there? Or do you think permitting kooks to band together and propagate serves some therapeutic purpose?
In another thread, I nominated Raelian`s worldview for the role of Incompetent Designer. Seems to me their premise holds as much water as some proposed here.
An atheist will always stay somewhere within the philosophy envelope,
Not this atheist. My reasonings are based almost wholly on the available evidence. And no, I don`t give much credence to that old cop-out 'Absence of evidence etc.'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by RAZD, posted 11-26-2005 12:23 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by RAZD, posted 11-26-2005 7:56 AM Nighttrain has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024