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Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
jar
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Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(3)
Message 211 of 531 (649621)
01-24-2012 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Phat
01-24-2012 1:45 PM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
Okay, but first take away his drivers license.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 213 of 531 (656701)
03-21-2012 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by Phat
03-21-2012 8:11 AM


Re: Richard Roberts In Action
When they were never there in the first place, sure.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 218 of 531 (869065)
12-22-2019 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Phat
12-22-2019 4:12 PM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
Phat writes:

jar writes:

...far more abandon Christianity and adopt Islam after critically evaluating Christianity.

It is largely because people are forced to convert to Islam in some circumstances. There is no forcing done in Christianity apart from peer pressure.

Evidence Phat, evidence. Are people forced to become Muslims in China, India, the US, Europe, South East Asia, Canada?

What is true is that the major reason for a child to become a Muslim is exactly the same reason that a child becomes a Christian and that is getting born into a Christian family.

Edited by jar, : No reason given.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 220 of 531 (869067)
12-22-2019 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Phat
12-22-2019 4:50 PM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
If the conversion is kept quiet then we will not have any data to support such claims and so any such claims should simply be disregarded.

But it is interesting that as both Christians and Muslims mature a significant percentage throw the religion away.


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jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 223 of 531 (869072)
12-22-2019 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Faith
12-22-2019 6:10 PM


Re: True Conversion
Yet the evidence shows that the majority of conversions are to throw religions away. When about one out of four Christians or Muslims simply throw their belief away it might be worthwhile for the religion to look at why it is failing.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by Phat, posted 12-23-2019 2:55 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 229 of 531 (869095)
12-23-2019 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Faith
12-23-2019 2:24 AM


Re: True Conversion
Faith writes:

You asked a question, I answered it with the Christian point of view. Your opinion is another subject.

Not the Christian point of view Faith but only the dogma of your cult.


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jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 230 of 531 (869096)
12-23-2019 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by Phat
12-23-2019 2:55 AM


Re: True Conversion
Phat writes:

You say you are a believer. Have you thrown anything (or anyone_) significant away?

Yes Phat, all the God(s) and god(s) that have even been discussed in the Bible or any other sacred text as well as what you call "Mainstream Christianity". I understand that GOD, if GOD exists is not any of the God(s) or god(s) found in the Bible or in any of the other religions. I understand that Christianity is MY chosen path but not "THE" path. I understand that the God Characters in the Bible are all flawed imaginations of simple humans.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 249 of 531 (869143)
12-24-2019 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by Phat
12-24-2019 4:26 AM


Phat, you really don't read what you write!
Phat writes:

If anyone can imagine a Klingon they can surely imagine a Spirit Being who sends an anthropomorphized rep to the planet.

The only people to question that statement are the folk like you Phat that insist all those Spirit Beings were more than just the products of human imagination.

Phat writes:

Much better than thinking we have just evolved as animals out for a long generational trek to do our best at becoming of higher intelligence by rejecting anything our little science kits cant prove.

Why?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Phat, posted 12-24-2019 4:26 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 12-24-2019 8:58 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 252 of 531 (869148)
12-24-2019 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Phat
12-24-2019 8:58 AM


Re: Phat, you really don't read what you write!
Again you simply fall back on word salad Phat and avoid responding to what others actually say.

Phat writes:

jar writes:

Why?

Call it intuition. I realize that your argument is that the evidence shows this to be the likely case.

The why was my question to your posts quoted below.

Phat writes:

Much better than thinking we have just evolved as animals out for a long generational trek to do our best at becoming of higher intelligence by rejecting anything our little science kits cant prove.

Is it intuition really Phat or simply a personal wish?

Phat writes:

Seeing us as simply evolving animals with no help from God is depressing. I fear we will fail.

But stop and look at reality.

We have the God given ability to recognize right from wrong. Your own quote from Genesis says that we have the God given ability to do right rather than wrong.

Remember the guy named Paul.

We are charged to fight the GOOD fight. Win or lose, fight the GOOD fight.

We are charged to Run the race. Win or lose, run the race.

We have the knowledge today to at least determine factually, based on real evidence, what the problems are today.

We have the power through the vote to tell our representatives at all levels that they must address those problems.

At the local level we need to vote for those representatives that address the local issues of hunger and safety and shelter and basic necessities. If they cannot present concrete plans to address those issues then don't vote for them. If they get elected but do not fulfill their commitments, recall them and throw them away.

At the State level address the regional issues. Make the representatives present their program to encourage switching to Green Energy rather than Fossil Fuels. Make them address zoning laws that will encourage folk to move away from areas susceptible to predictable disasters or to build in a fashion to mitigate losses from fire, flood, mud, rock or snow slide, rising sea levels or beach erosion. Set a tax incentive plan to encourage the move from fossil energy systems to renewable energy systems.

At the National level do the same. Demand representatives that will work to bring the US health care system up to at least the international average. Demand Federal action to address climate change, the wealth gap, a progressive taxation system, long term stability of Social Security and Health Care and again, encourage the transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy.

Phat, we can see what needs to be done and where it needs to be done. Jesus commanded us to address those very issues and as Christians we are charged to at least try to fight the Good fight, Run the race.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 12-24-2019 8:58 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 258 of 531 (869193)
12-25-2019 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by Phat
12-25-2019 10:35 AM


Re: Apologetics vs Apolojartics-Christianity without Christ
All just word salad with no value or information.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Phat, posted 12-25-2019 10:35 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 263 by Phat, posted 12-26-2019 3:50 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 261 of 531 (869219)
12-26-2019 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by Faith
12-26-2019 7:34 AM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
Why should he know Faith?

Stop and think about the number of histories of talking snakes.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Faith, posted 12-26-2019 7:34 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 267 of 531 (869235)
12-26-2019 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Phat
12-26-2019 3:50 PM


Re: Apologetics vs Apolojartics-Christianity without Christ
Learn to read.

You presented what you considered to be intelligible quotations of some relevance to the topic. and example is below.

quote:
Jesus is absolutely indispensable to Christianity—and His claims are also unique. First is His description of the human condition. He declared that the heart is in rebellion against God. Second, Jesus offers a unique solution to the problem. The provision He gives for you and me is utterly unique, and it is not cheap. It is the cross. This graciousness of forgiveness is not found in other worldviews. For instance, Islam says that for you to get to heaven, your good deeds will have to outweigh your bad. In other words, you pay. When Christ comes and says to you and me that He is offering forgiveness and doing so through the payment of His life on the cross, it is an extraordinary truth. The Bible says we need a Savior and we need forgiveness. There is only one place in the world where love, forgiveness, and justice come together, and that is at the cross. This truth of Christ’s grace is unique. Third, Jesus is unique because in Him was no sin; He lived a perfect life. Even Pontius Pilate declared, “I find no fault in this man” (Luke 23:4 KJV ).demonstration of His uniqueness. Christianity, therefore, is Christ. Indeed, Englishman John Stott wrote, “If Jesus was not God in human flesh, Christianity is exploded. We are left with just another religion with some beautiful ideas and noble ethics; its unique distinction has gone.”1 At the very heart of Christianity, Jesus is the image and the incarnation of the invisible God—the One who came to live among us to show us God’s love, perfection, and grace. And this reality changes everything.

It is a classic example of word salad; the words are intelligible and it is pretty much grammatically correct but it is also totally irrelevant to the topic of reality.

It begins with a truly silly truism, that Jesus is indispensable to Christianity. Of course it is but in exactly the same sense as Buddha is indispensable to Buddhism. You even quoted the relevant reasoning and logic and in fact I have presented you the exact same argument related to Christianity a Brazillion times over the years.

Even if Jesus was simply a tale told around the campfires the lessons and message is still relevant and important.

But back to the word salad example. After that first truism all of the rest is simply the Snake Oil Salesmans Medicine Wagon Spiel. It is the standard sales pitch of the Get Outta Hell marketeer. It is also yet another example of dogma that is directly contradicted by the Bible itself; the Jesus was without sin absurdity.

We have been over examples of Jesus sinning found in the Bible and just as with examples of God being unsure, no0t all powerful, confused and in error, they really are there and you and I have gone over such examples many times. Your standard answer has been "It is impossible for God to be ..." regardless of what was actually written.

I have not yet accused you of mental illness but it would be wise for you to at least critically examine the evidence. When you cannot see that your quotes in support of your position are pointless and have absolutely no meaning beyond truisms and echoing the Christianity made in YOUR image, when you deny the reality of what is actually written in the most basic foundation of the religion you claim can you say that is not an indication of mental illness?

Can you not see that everything in the quote you chose was simply an unsupported assertion that the Christianity being marketed is in some way special apart from the beautiful ideas and noble ethics.

But as the quotation related to the Buddha said, "If the Buddha was a myth, they said, it did not matter at all. Why? Because Buddhism should be judged as an abstract philosophy—as a system of living. Whether its concepts originated with the Buddha is irrelevant. As an aside, I think the Buddha himself would have concurred. Knowing that his death was imminent, he beseeched his followers not to focus on him but to remember his teachings." and I would echo that if Jesus was a myth, it does not matter at all. Why? Because Christianity should be judged as an abstract philosophy—as a system of living. Whether its concepts originated with Jesus is irrelevant. As an aside, I think the Jesus himself would have concurred. Knowing that his death was imminent, he beseeched his followers not to focus on him but to remember his teachings. It is called the Great Commission and we are all called to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the sorrowful, shelter the homeless, defend the weak and do as we are told to by Jesus in the stories.

Edited by jar, : applin spallin


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jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 270 of 531 (869248)
12-26-2019 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Faith
12-26-2019 7:14 PM


Re: Lewis on literature and history
And you have still not presented any evidence that he said that or the context at the time.

Sorry Faithy but CS Lweis was not so stupid as to think much of the Bible was not just fiction and folk tales.


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This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 275 of 531 (869263)
12-27-2019 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Faith
12-26-2019 10:47 PM


Re: Lewis on literature and history
Faith writes:

So he didn't know how to judge some parts of the Bible. The main point still stands. He knew most of it wasn't fiction but history.

No one has ever questioned the fact that some parts of the Bible reflect actual history even though it is pretty much a fanciful and fictitious account. There were twelve Jewish tribes. There were two City States of Judah and Israel. There were periods when the Hebrews were a Theocratic people and periods when they were Monarchies. There is evidence that there were Jews in Egypt but then Egypt was a major cultural center and there were peoples from all over the Mediterranean there.

But there is no evidence there was a Garden of Eden. That is pure fiction.

There is no evidence of the Conquest of Canaan. That is pure fiction.

There is no evidence of the Exodus. That is pure fiction. Job and Jonah and Cain and Able and Sodom and Gomorrah are all fiction.

But that does not mean they are without value.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Faith, posted 12-26-2019 10:47 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 280 of 531 (869288)
12-27-2019 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Faith
12-27-2019 2:55 PM


Re: Again Faith needs to backpedal and retract claims
Faith, even if there actually was such a quote from CS Lewis, it would mean little since everyone can look directly at what was actually written and see that the concept that the Bible is all historical is just nonsense. As I pointed out back in Message 275 ...

quote:
No one has ever questioned the fact that some parts of the Bible reflect actual history even though it is pretty much a fanciful and fictitious account. There were twelve Jewish tribes. There were two City States of Judah and Israel. There were periods when the Hebrews were a Theocratic people and periods when they were Monarchies. There is evidence that there were Jews in Egypt but then Egypt was a major cultural center and there were peoples from all over the Mediterranean there.

But there is no evidence there was a Garden of Eden. That is pure fiction.

There is no evidence of the Conquest of Canaan. That is pure fiction.

There is no evidence of the Exodus. That is pure fiction. Job and Jonah and Cain and Able and Sodom and Gomorrah are all fiction.

But that does not mean they are without value.



My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Faith, posted 12-27-2019 2:55 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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