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Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
ICANT
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Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 22 of 531 (474607)
07-09-2008 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Hyroglyphx
07-08-2008 11:42 AM


Re: Specifically to the point
Hi NJ
Nemesis Juggernaut writes:

Or even better, I'll bet these people don't even believe in God or the authority of the Bible. Because surely they would be extremely aware that they are crooks and swindlers, the same kind that Jesus warned about in the Bible. Would they be that bold to risk certain perdition, or are they merely trolls who act this way just so they can swindle your money?

I truly hate to disappoint you but they actually believe they are doing the will of God just like those folks who flew the planes into the twin towers.

They are totally convinced that the way they are doing it is the only way there is, everybody else is heretics. They are preaching the true Gospel.

You remember the scripture that He would allow them to believe a lie and be damned.

I have met some of those people in person starting with Oral Roberts.

But he was not in the class with Benny Hinn or Joel Osteen or Joyce Meyer.

Benny and Joyce make over a hundred million per year from donations. I have no figures for Joel but considering his books probably a lot.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-08-2008 11:42 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-09-2008 6:03 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 23 of 531 (474608)
07-09-2008 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
07-09-2008 6:45 AM


Re: Specifically to the point
Hi Phat, long time no chat.

Phat writes:

One question, though. When Benny Hinn "annoints" the crowd, as seen here are they:

1) Brainwashed?
2) set ups?(they are paid to pretend to fall?)
3) Power of suggestion? (One guy falls so everyone thinks they must fall?)

All of the above.

Plus the man has actual supernatural powers.

You remember the story about the magicians in Egypt when Moses cast down his rod.

The God of this world Satan has a lot of power and he does not mind sharing it with those who will do his bidding.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 07-09-2008 6:45 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 26 of 531 (474634)
07-09-2008 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Hyroglyphx
07-09-2008 6:03 PM


Re: Specifically to the point
Nemesis Juggernaut writes:

You sure about that?

Oral was, Paul Crouch is and so is Benny Hinn. The rest I haven't met. These were and are totally convinced. I would assume those that are their students and who fellowship with them are also but not necessarily. They may be in it just for the money.

If you tell a lie over and over it will eventually become the truth as you know it. If you can convince yourself you can convince others.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-09-2008 6:03 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 07-13-2008 9:38 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 198 by Phat, posted 10-21-2011 8:50 AM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 28 of 531 (475186)
07-13-2008 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Phat
07-13-2008 9:38 PM


Re: Few Are Chosen
Phat writes:

How many of the televangelists and radio personalities that claim to be ministers of the Gospel would you say are on the level?

All that don't ask for your money.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 07-13-2008 9:38 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Buzsaw, posted 07-13-2008 11:55 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 31 of 531 (475201)
07-14-2008 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Buzsaw
07-13-2008 11:55 PM


Re: Few Are Chosen
Buzsaw writes:

Of course no televangelist needs money to preach the gospel on TV or radio. The stations just dole out the air time to them. I'm sure Billy Graham would attest to that.

Hi Buz Phat asked how many I would say is on the level. I gave the answer that I believe is correct.

Now there may be those that ask for money that is on the level. I don't know.

Do they need money to operate? Yes lot's of it.

But I don't find where Jesus sent out any televangelists to convert the world.

I do find where He gave the local Church a job. They were told as you go through the world make disciples, baptize them, and then teach them the all things.

Now if a Church wants to have a TV ministry and pay for such a ministry that is great. If other churches want to help them that is great. If they ask for money they forfited their job.

I find everything is to be done through the local Church. No one else has any authority to preach, teach or baptize.

We take an offering on Sunday morning only. Money is never mentioned and I never preach on money. It is never mentioned from the pulpit ever. We always have plenty.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Buzsaw, posted 07-13-2008 11:55 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 07-15-2008 3:30 AM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 34 of 531 (475321)
07-15-2008 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
07-15-2008 3:30 AM


Re: Show Me The Money
Phat writes:

How then can they get the money?

Phat the membership of the Church is supposed to finance the operation of the Church. If the Church then offers a program on TV the Church should pay the bill. Not the viewers.

Let me give an example.

The fire dept. raises many thousands of dollars each year for Jerry's kids by standing with their boots on street corners. When the numbers are announced the fire dept gave so much to Jerry's kids. No they did not give they got people to give. Many of the other businesses do the same thing with their jars in the stores.

Phat writes:

The money issue alone doesn't condemn the preachers in my mind.

That only shows they are doing it to make money instead of providing a service.

But to me the money is the least important issue.

The authority to preach is the biggest problem to me.

Who does Benny Hinn have to answer too? Benny Hinn Ministries.
Who does Joyce Meyer have to answer too? Joyce Meyer Ministries.
The list could go on and on.

Where do they get the authority to preach, teach and baptize from.
The Church is the only one that has that authority. Matt. 28:16-20

Jesus gave the disciples not the Apostles the authority to go, to preach, to baptize and to teach.

Not televangelists.

Benny Hinn came to the Cayman Islands while I was there. He had a big crusade planned. The first night when the offering plates were passed. He said there is not enough money pass the plates again.
Upon conclusion of the services He got on his plane and left the Island.

Does that tell you why he was there?

Phat writes:

If people want to give them money, that is on the people.

No it is on the wolves that are in sheep's clothing that is fleecing the gullible people in the name of Jesus.

Phat writes:

Its no different than making some athlete or entertainer wealthy.

It is much different. People go to these people expecting a miracle from God. Because that is what they promise.

People go to football, baseball, basketball golf games, auto races and a lot of other things to be entertained.

But no man is worth a million dollars an hour to play a kids game.
No preacher is worth 2 million dollars a week either. (That could support a lot of missionaries for a long time.)

The wolves in sheep's clothing and those high paid jocks would starve to death if they had to depend on my money to eat.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 07-15-2008 3:30 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 07-16-2008 11:52 AM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 36 of 531 (475547)
07-16-2008 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Phat
07-16-2008 11:52 AM


Re: Apostolic Succession
Phat writes:

So then do you believe in Apostolic Succession?

That should have been clear, but since it wasn't. NO

Phat writes:

If you and I and three other people started a church, would we not be accountable one to another?

Three born again scripturally baptized believers can form a church.

All those requirements must be met. In order for it to be a Scriptural New Testament Church.

They would be accountable to each other and they would be accountable to God individually and as a group.

Then they would be responsible for preaching the gospel as they go through the world. Baptizing those who became believers, and then teaching the all things Jesus taught.

Jesus never taught a prosperity gospel.

That is what all the people we have been talking about preach.

Sow that seed money and God will bless you.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 07-16-2008 11:52 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 43 of 531 (514286)
07-05-2009 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Hyroglyphx
07-03-2009 11:37 AM


Re: Religion Can Be A Drug
Hi Hyroglyphx,

Hyroglyphx writes:

How can you be that big of a scumbag? It's just so hard to imagine going through your life knowing you're a conman and a swindler without feeling remorse.

It's easy, he believes he is doing God's will.

Matthew writes:

7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Not everybody that thinks they are doing God's will is.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-03-2009 11:37 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 56 of 531 (514479)
07-08-2009 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
07-07-2009 11:19 AM


Re: What IS Christianity?
Hi Phat,

You asked Granny what a Christian was. I would like to try to answer that one for you.

The word Christian is used 2 time's in the Bible.
Acts 26:28

Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

1Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

The word Christians is used only one time in the Bible.

Acts 11:26

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

The disciples who were followers of Christ was called Christians first at Antioch.

The only reason these people would be called Christians as they were already followers of Christ was that they were living a life like Christ lived.

In my 47 years of preaching and pastoring I have never met a person who was living a life like Christ did.

I have met a lot of so called Christians and self called Christians but you are not a Christian until you are living a life that the atheist, the agnostic, the Pharisee and the natural man say that man is a Christian. Or that man is living a life like Christ did.

You see Christ gave up everything even His life so mankind could be restored to fellowship with God.

I can't get people to give up 3 or 4 hours of their time and some not even 30 minutes of their time a week to study what God would have them do.

So my definition of a Christian is a person who is living a life like Christ did.

I am not a Christian. I am a follower of Christ who is trying each day to be more like Him.

Phat writes:

As for Spong being a Christian, I believe that if he was in fact an Episcopal Bishop for many years, that in and of itself would validate his status as a Christian. Having checked his resume, I find that he was in fact an Episcopal Bishop.

You have proof he is a man of religion nothing else. Being a Bishop, Priest, Pastor or Pope don't make you a Christian.

He doesn't fit my description of a Christian.

(FUI Matthew 1:23 tells us His name would be "Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.")

So what makes you think he is a Christian?

Since he doesn't really believe in God, then he would not accept Christ as God.

If you think he is a Christian what is your definition of a Christian?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 07-07-2009 11:19 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 199 of 531 (638301)
10-21-2011 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Phat
10-21-2011 8:50 AM


Re: Is it possible to be used as Gods instrument?
Hi Phat,

Phat writes:

I don't believe that all expressions of faith are in vain,

I agree. But many are.

Phat writes:

I also believe that it is possible for someone to be used as an instrument of God.

God can use any vessel in His ministry as long as it is a clean vessel.

Phat writes:

Critics may then ask how I knew or could prove that it was a manifestation of God, and, truthfully, there would be no way to prove it. I suppose the message should be judged by its content (message) and not by its purported source.(Spirit Led)

John writing to saved born again people said:

quote:
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Phat writes:

Benny Hinn actually defended himself on ABC News.

Benny Hinn has no defense.

I was in Grand Cayman when we were graced with Hinn's presence. His workers had been on Island several weeks when he arrived on his private jet. The evening service was started and the offering plates were passed around. A little later they were passed around again. A little later they were passed around again. After the third time he explained that it took a lot of money for him to come to a town and have a healing services and that enough had not been collected. The plates were passed around the fourth time after which there was a short service.

The next morning the jet and Mr. Hinn was gone. His people cleaned up the area that was set up and left the Island.

He can tell me he is not in it for the money, but he can't convince me, as I saw it first hand.

Phat writes:

Do you personally believe that the Bible is without error? (error being defined as less than perfect wisdom, contradictory messages, and having been written and revised by humans who, perhaps, had an agenda.

I believe the original was without error.

The text has been copied and mis-copied and revised according to modern man's biases and practices, desires and a lot of other things.

So yes they had and agenda and still do today as we have new revelations coming online all the time in the form of new bibles.

That is why I use the 1611 KJV Bible as I believe it is the best English version we have available to us today. Yes I do have a 1611 version with the old English as well as one that has the English of today.

Is it perfect? No

That is why I went to college and studied Greek and Hebrew so I can examine the oldest text's available for myself and compare to our translations.

The MT can be traced back to 900 AD with no modifications to it that was made prior to that time available. Those were all destroyed.

There are many fragments of different texts that are available as well as the Dead Sea Scrolls and the LXX.

Until the Dead Sea Scrolls were found the LXX was considered by many scholars as a bad text. But when it was found that the LXX was suported by the DSS that changed.

But yes I believe the messages that was written by Moses was perfect as they were delivered to him by God during the 40 days on the mount, and recorded during the 40 years of wandering around in the desert.

I believe that God guided the writers of the other books and kept them from error but we do not have their original writings to examine. We only have copies that have been preserved by humans who do not always want to preserve the truth.

All you have to do is read a history book from the 50's and compare it to a present day history book to realize that people do have agenda's. They have changed our history.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Phat, posted 10-21-2011 8:50 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by frako, posted 10-21-2011 3:42 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 201 of 531 (638358)
10-21-2011 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by frako
10-21-2011 3:42 PM


Re: Is it possible to be used as Gods instrument?
Hi frako,

frako writes:

So god is incapable of using a vessel like me who is a drinking gambling ganja smoking man whore.

Just as soon as you are washed in the blood of the Lamb that was slain on the cross of Calvary, God can use you.

Because when that happens those bad habits will change because you will not be the same.

frako writes:

So when the church dose it its ok but when a faith healer does it its not ok?

It is not OK for either to exist to collect and squander money.

frako writes:

In my country if you want a church funeral you have to pay for it and they never ever forget to pass the collection plate around.

I have no idea what kind of a church you are talking about.

My present church is the first church I pastored that has paid me a salary in 42 years of pastoring.

I have been there for five years and for two of those years we paid the pastor zero salary.

Any member of the church can use the facilities for a funeral, or a wedding and there is no charge. They have invested some of their money in the church and should be able to use the facilities.

A person that is not a member of the church is charged a fee that will cover overhead, electricity, and clean up fees, as they have nothing invested in the facilities.

In the 5+ years I have pastored the church we have taken an offering on Sunday mornings only and I have never preached a sermon or mentioned giving of money in our worship services.

We discuss finances in our business meeting and everyone knows how much money we need to meet those needs. If we don't meet those needs something has to be cut which is always the pastors salary.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by frako, posted 10-21-2011 3:42 PM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by frako, posted 10-21-2011 6:43 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 203 of 531 (638374)
10-21-2011 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by frako
10-21-2011 6:43 PM


Re: Is it possible to be used as Gods instrument?
Hi frako,

frako writes:

That would be the RCC the guy who have the pope in the Vatican.

That would explain your problems with church.

It would also explain why you were no different after your baptism than you were before.

A person has to be washed in the blood of the Lamb that died on the cross of Calvary and when that happens a person will be a different person.

A good example is a man by the name of Saul who was going about putting people in jail for even praying in the name of Jesus. He even consented unto the death of Steven. But when he met Jesus on the road to Damascus and was washed in the blood of the Lamb by believing God he was a changed man. Instead of putting people in jail for praying in the name of Jesus, he was put in jail many times for preaching the salvation of Jesus, and he never looked back.

frako writes:

They dont get salleries here either but they dont have a bad life they get to buy a new car every few years, live in fine places all the modern conforts money can buy, they get fed clothed, and when they are to old to drink a ¹pricer(wine watter mix) at 7 in the morning they get a state pension for wich the church does not contribute 1 cent in taxes.

If I had those things I would not need a salary either. You wouldn't either would you?

I have to supply all my physical needs, whether I am getting a salary or not. It is just as if I was working a regular job at a local business.

But I serve a great God and He has supplied my every need for 72 years and I don't expect Him to fail me in the future.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by frako, posted 10-21-2011 6:43 PM frako has not yet responded

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 Message 204 by Phat, posted 10-22-2011 4:31 AM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6426
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 205 of 531 (638470)
10-22-2011 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Phat
10-22-2011 4:31 AM


Re: Being used by God, chosen or foreknowingly rejected
Hi Phat,

Phat writes:

And that brings up another honest question. Can it be that the Creator of All Seen and Unseen be so limited as to communicate with me only through these scriptures?

Sure God can speak to you in other ways but you have to be listening.

quote:
19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Science has a problem with how the universe is held together. They have spent many year and a lot of money trying to figure out how it is held together.

So they eventually came up with Dark Energy and Dark Matter which make up 95% of the universe. Dark Energy being 70% and Dark Matter being 25%.

More is unknown about these than is known. It has to exist or the universe would fly apart.

What is it? Not a clue.

quote:
1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


Jesus is the Energy that holds the universe together.

God has given us a book that has the truth in it. We have to study it and let the Holy Spirit lead us in all truth as Jesus said He would.

Phat writes:

Why would people have an evil agenda now and yet Moses and the early writings have a pure agenda?

Who said all the early writers have a pure agenda?

Moses recorded what God gave him as did the other original writers.

The problem arises when people copied the trexts and then copied the texts and copied the texts etc.

People have biases and they show up in what a person understands a text to say. Thus they insert their biases in what they are copying by saying that is not what the orginal says.

Look at all the different Bibles that have been printed in the last 20 years. You should get the idea from that.

Phat writes:

I only ask questions to further understanding of God --perhaps He can use you or others at EvC to enlighten me..?

I am glad to see you are still searching for the truth and I pray that you find it.

Phat writes:

I used to believe in salvation by Grace and profession (and repentance) yet began to question the reality of this once I saw how many church folks that had been saved (myself included) that continued making the same willful sins and dumb decisions that they had before the washed-in-the-blood experience

Salvation is by grace and grace alone as no one deserves it.

If you could earn it so as to deserve it Christ would not have had to go to the cross of Calvary and give His life a ransom for mankind who is separated from God.

quote:
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Your good deeds will not save you as jar teaches.

quote:
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


You seem to have a miscomception of what being washed in the blood of the Lamb involves.

It seems you think it is a religious experience in which a profession is made and one is baptized and then goes to work in the church.

It is an experience of one coming face to face with Jesus and realizing we are a sinner separated from God with no means on our own to gain entrance into His presence. When we realize that and accept it as a fact then we can accept the offer of a free full pardon that was secured for everyone by the Lamb that was slain on Calvary.

The pardon is there available to everyone.

But a pardon is not in effect until it is accepted by the one it is offered too.

The following text puts it best.

quote:
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Verse 18 sums it up pretty good, when it tells us "he that believeth is not condemened". Believing = trusting in God to do what He says He will do.

He then says man is condemned already.

So if you have not been born of the Spirit of God you are condemned.

Then he gives the only reason mankind is condemned. "Because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

It does not say mankind is condemned because:

He has not joined a church.
He has not been baptized.
He has not done good works.
He has not been faithful all the time
He has not paid tithes.
He has not had some great religious experience.
He is a sinner.
He never helped anyone.
He is from the wrong side of the tracks.
etc.

Man is condemned simply because he does not believe in Jesus Christ and trust Him to give him eternal life like He said He would do.

So anybody that tells you they have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and they do not follow Jesus is telling you a lie.

quote:
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


There is no room in that for a person to not follow Jesus if they belong to Jesus.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Phat, posted 10-22-2011 4:31 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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