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Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 221 of 531 (869068)
12-22-2019 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Phat
12-22-2019 4:50 PM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
Why are there any conversions at all? Does one god stop speaking and another start?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Phat, posted 12-22-2019 4:50 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 12-22-2019 6:10 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 224 of 531 (869075)
12-23-2019 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by Faith
12-22-2019 6:10 PM


Re: True Conversion
Given all that made up nonsense, how can a conversion away from Christianity to another religion be possible? Which god is speaking the loudest?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 12-22-2019 6:10 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Faith, posted 12-23-2019 2:07 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 226 of 531 (869080)
12-23-2019 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by Faith
12-23-2019 2:07 AM


Re: True Conversion
Faith writes:
It's amazing how such a complete system of thought can be accused of being made up, but you guys have to find something wrong with it.
A system of thought, is, by definition, made up.
There is no conversion to any other religion, no actual change as there is in Christianity.
They say there is.
People choose other religions but they don't convert in the sense I'm describing. There's only one true God, the God of the Bible.
They say different.
Take it or leave it, Tangle,
I left it.
I'm telling you what I know but you don't have to accept it. You can always make up whatever you want, assume I'm just partisan etc.
You're telling me what you believe and what you've made up and simply denying what others say about their conversions. Why should I accept what you say? You're so provably wrong about everything else, why should anyone accept your story as correct?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Faith, posted 12-23-2019 2:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Faith, posted 12-23-2019 2:24 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 233 of 531 (869111)
12-23-2019 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Faith
12-23-2019 2:24 AM


Re: True Conversion
Faith writes:
...there is no real faith in other religions. They are all lies.
All science is wrong, all other faiths are lies, all other Christians are false but somehow you got it right.
I'm done with you for this year at least.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Faith, posted 12-23-2019 2:24 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Faith, posted 12-23-2019 11:21 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 241 of 531 (869123)
12-23-2019 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Phat
12-23-2019 12:14 PM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
Phat writes:
Why is the concept of angels so glaringly illogical?
Do you really need to ask that? Why would god need angels? More stupidly, why create a bad one?
And why is the idea that one of them would decide to drink his own Kool-Aid rather than the corporate version so preposterous?
This is so childish ... why would an angel in heaven - the most perfect and happiest place imaginable - want to change anything? Don't you think it possible that this is just all anthropomorphised? Can't you see that it's just a folk myth? There's nothing god-like about any of this stuff. It's all totally human.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Phat, posted 12-23-2019 12:14 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by frako, posted 12-23-2019 8:59 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 245 by Phat, posted 12-24-2019 4:26 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(3)
Message 243 of 531 (869133)
12-24-2019 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by frako
12-23-2019 8:59 PM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
Ah, don't tell me he made a ring to bind the darkness but lost it and it was found by a hobbit with big hairy toes

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by frako, posted 12-23-2019 8:59 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by frako, posted 12-24-2019 3:13 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 246 of 531 (869140)
12-24-2019 4:45 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by Phat
12-24-2019 4:26 AM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
Phat writes:
If anyone can imagine a Klingon they can surely imagine a Spirit Being who sends an anthropomorphized rep to the planet.
Yes Phat, they can and did imagine a Spirit Being, and talking snakes, angels and devils, war in heavens etc etc etc.
That's the point, it's all obviously human imagination, mystical thinking and story telling. There's nothing remotely god-like about any of it.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Phat, posted 12-24-2019 4:26 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Faith, posted 12-24-2019 4:49 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 248 of 531 (869142)
12-24-2019 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Faith
12-24-2019 4:49 AM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
It reads exactly like fiction. Exactly. There's nothing in the bible that *couldn't* have been written by people alive at the time it was written.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Faith, posted 12-24-2019 4:49 AM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 251 of 531 (869147)
12-24-2019 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Phat
12-24-2019 8:58 AM


Re: Phat, you really don't read what you write!
Phat writes:
Star Trek, a fantasy that inspired a generation of future scientists, was a story where humans tried to do their best and overcame many seemingly insurmountable challenges without the help of any God. I do not have an optimistic outlook on the future of humanity without God.
Says who? You? Seemed pretty optimistic to me. For a start there *was* a future, unlike your lots persistent claim that the end of the world is nigh and daily doom laden prophesies. They always put things right and win the day.
bottom line is that we collectively need further lessons.
Says who? You?
Seeing us as simply evolving animals with no help from God is depressing.
To you.
I fear we will fail. Perhaps this shows one of my own human flaws---that I have always relied on help my entire life to get out of the worst jams---many of which I myself created. Perhaps I would have been better off if nobody ever helped me.
More doom and whinging. For god's sake Phat get a grip.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 12-24-2019 8:58 AM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 259 of 531 (869195)
12-25-2019 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by jar
12-25-2019 10:49 AM


Re: Apologetics vs Apolojartics-Christianity without Christ
Pure contentless blather.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by jar, posted 12-25-2019 10:49 AM jar has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 329 of 531 (871275)
01-31-2020 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 326 by Phat
01-31-2020 12:39 AM


Re: Discussing GOD,God, and god.(whoever the uncapitalized one is!)
Tangle writes:
The One whom you deny exists and existed listens to my prayers, sob stories, and whining and often gives me an insight that I would never expect.
So how come you're so bloody miserable and unhappy with your life? I don't have the help of the almighty to keep my pecker up, so how is it I'm doing less whining?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 12:39 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 405 of 531 (871566)
02-05-2020 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 402 by Hyroglyphx
02-05-2020 1:56 PM


Re: Whining for A Free pass
Hyro writes:
Thanks for setting the example... imagine the moral outrage had you said "blacksplain." But you won't get any backlash here at EvC for it because its not racist to be critical of white people on account of their whiteness.
Actually, he pissed me off with that too. It doesn't seems like a strategy with much chance of succeeding - behaving like the thing you accuse others of.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-05-2020 1:56 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by Theodoric, posted 02-05-2020 5:05 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 408 of 531 (871573)
02-05-2020 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 407 by Theodoric
02-05-2020 5:05 PM


Re: Whining for A Free pass
Theo writes:
Is your white privilege being attacked?
Not at all, sticks and stones etc, isn't that the point of white privilege, that we're above all that crap? No, it just pisses me off that you're going to make it worse just as I thought equality and diversity was making progress.
There is no such thing as blacksplaining about racism. Maybe you do not understand what whitesplaining is.
You need to understand what you're doing when you use racist terms when you're trying fight racism. Don't you see that you doing exactly what you accuse others of?
I am not sorry it made you mad or uncomfortable. Maybe it will cause you to do a little research and introspection as to why the word exists and why minorities and people of color take offense at it.
I understand why people take offence, that's why you and no-one else should do it.
I love how white privilege makes people go to the rationalization that pointing out racism or calling people out on discriminatory actions and behaviors is itself racism.
Don't you get racism at all? Calling me 'white privileged' in that way is identical to me calling you whatever epithet you don't enjoy hearing and object to. How do you think that's helping?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by Theodoric, posted 02-05-2020 5:05 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by Theodoric, posted 02-05-2020 11:36 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 412 of 531 (871587)
02-06-2020 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 410 by Theodoric
02-05-2020 11:36 PM


Re: Whining for A Free pass
Theo writes:
Whitesplaining and white privilege are not racist terms.
Of course they are, they are terms that target individuals because of the colour of their skin and only because of the colour of their skin. and are applied to all those of that skin colour indiscriminately. It's the definition of racism.
Me pointing out racism is not a racist act no matter that your white privilege wants it to be.
If you label all white people indiscriminately in the angry and aggressive way that you do using that kind of language you are being just as racist as those you accuse of it and you will only alienate those white people - the vast majority - that support your cause. You have rightful grievances, don't lash out at those who would help you fix them.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by Theodoric, posted 02-05-2020 11:36 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by Phat, posted 02-06-2020 4:13 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 415 by ringo, posted 02-06-2020 10:51 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 414 of 531 (871589)
02-06-2020 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 413 by Phat
02-06-2020 4:13 AM


Re: Whining for A Free pass
I've no idea. On this side of the pond nobody discusses religion - it's a non-subject, mostly irrelevant - so no way of knowing unless there's some formal surveys somewhere.
There may be a big difference between the developed and undeveloped world of course.
ABE
quote:
In the United States, blacks are less likely than other ethnic groups to be religiously unaffiliated, let alone identifying as atheist.[1][2][3] The demographics are similar in the United Kingdom.[4]
Atheism in the African diaspora - Wikipedia
This kind of crap (below) is really annoying. Atheists are just people that lack a belief in god, apart from that they're just ordinary people with their ordinary biases and prejudices. Hardly any of us are involved in any sort of 'movement' or group. And the concept of 'tacitly' racist is insulting and in itself racist.
We really need to stop banding that word about randomly, it's losing its actual meaning and has begun to mean the slightest imaginary slight. Real racism is an evil that need harsh treatment, 'implicit' slights don't come anywhere near it.
quote:
The overall atheist movement can be seen as "tacitly racist" in that "the movement is not generally interested in the issues that affect people of color" and racism becomes "invisible" and therefore difficult to talk about.[15] Sikivu Hutchinson has written that there is a "staggering lack of interest" about issues facing black people from the atheist community.[25] Some atheist groups see no reason to have separate organizations for black people and do not see or understand the different kinds of issues that black atheists face.[26] Mandisa Thomas wrote that her own experiences "ranged from feeling totally welcome to feeling totally isolated, even ignored."[27]
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by Phat, posted 02-06-2020 4:13 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 420 by Phat, posted 02-06-2020 12:09 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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