Charismatic Chaos

Wrong. I once bought into all of the same nonsense that you buy into. The difference is that I realized it was worthless so I returned it and got my money back.The whole idea of Satan being "the bad guy" is nonsense. And the whole idea of free will is useless. Or maybe He's trying to cure you of those beliefs.

Heaven must be REALLY, REALLY LOUD!

It wasn't one flash of inspiration like you guys seem to want. It was years of mind-numbing stupidity. What deity? If somebody claims there's an all-powerful deity and a dangerous "enemy", why would I believe anything they say? I'm not too concerned about hypocrisy. It's the stupidity of the theology that bothers me. (And I think that deep down you must know how stupid the theology is because you consistently refuse to defend it.)

That's the kind of bullshit that drove me away from Christianity. I wouldn't say its irrational. I'd say it's unfounded in reality. You should ask yourself the honest question: Why do so many millions of people disagree with your theology? You already know the answer to that. Critical thinking and evidence work. They produced the computer you're looking at, the car you drive, etc. Why would you prefer believing in something you don't understand?

I didn't say it was.The idea of a good God creating evil angels is glaringly stupid. Because he would have known from the beginning that he couldn't win. Of course. Always, always ,always think for yourself. Always. Always. Always. How can you even dispute that?

You contradict yourself. Then why is your concept of it better than a non-believer's?

You like to throw in that word "collectively". I wonder why, since you're the one who believes that God communes with you individually. The lesson that you should be taking from that is that there is help. We do do things collectively, i.e. not relying on God.

Not really. We feed our children. We take care of the old and sick. Well, it would be stupid to create imperfect humans and then blame them for being imperfect. And it's stupid to believe that God is going to "save" us from Himself. Your feelings can't be trusted. No it doesn't. And Intelligent Design is really, really stupid. It's a creationist scam - and you're about two inches from becoming a full-blown creationist as crazy as Faith. It is. That's because you define your "spiritual realm" in that way. The problem with it being "beyond evidence" is that it's then categorized along with everything else that is unevidenced - the Tooth Fairy, unicorns, the Flintsones.... Without evidence, you can't distinguish silly, childish stories from anything else. It isn't deep down. It's right on the surface and in plain English. I reject your God for the same reason you reject the Tooth Fairy and unicorns and the Flintstones and Zeus. First, you might try quoting that passage honestly:

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Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

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I don't know where you get the idea that independence is akin to destruction. What translation are you using?Second, you might try looking at the conrtext, e.g. the next verse:

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Matthew 7:15-16 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits.

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That would be your apologists. And it would also be you and Faith. Do you want to think that through again? Critical thinking - or any other kind of thinking - is in the realm of the mind. And the Tooth Fairy and unicorns and the Flintstones and Zeus. Why do you make one exception? Of course. Yes = no is illogical. Pretty often. I, for one couldn't beat Carl Lewis and wouldn't try.But why do you lower your God to just another participant? There are certainly people who could beat Carl Lewis today. Do you really want to make your God somebody who could be beaten by Satan tomorrow? Well, we're pretty sure that we ourselves exist. And we're pretty sure that we have to do things ourselves because God isn't doing them for us. So there's no practical reason to think that God exists.

But we have no reason to think that's true. A "thus" that comes from an empty statement is equally empty.As I have pointed out, without evidence to distinguish one made-up idea from another, there is no way to distinguish one made-up idea from another.

False is the default. Innocent until proven guilty, no unicorns without evidence, etc. Otherwise we'd be up to our ears in possibilities with no way to thin the herd. Quit saying that. It's stupid. If there was any other standard we'd be using it. That's my question to you. Every argument you use against Zeus can be used against your God. There's nothing obvious about that, or even sensible. Species don't make mistakes. Only individuals make mistakes.And the whole "disconnection" thing is just another lie told by apologists. The whole Bible is about people connecting with God.

That's pretty much the whole truth. The only Satan is us - but us including Iran of course.

It's nonsensical in the context of the God that YOU have created. A logical God could be created and logical angels could be created. But you describe a supposedly "all-powerful" God - who has a powerful rival.???That's like saying Bill Gates has all of the money in the world - and Elon Musk has some money too. It's not consistent, not logical. You should stop trying to predict what I'm going to say. Your time would be better spent thinking through your own position. Again, that statement is self-contradictory. It's like saying a prisoner has complete freedom within his cell. False.

But that isn't the free will we're talking about. You claim we have the free will to choose heaven or hell. I say that's like having the free will to commit suicide or not. It's not a neutral choice. That isn't how the story tells it. The clear implication of the story is that being godlike meant having the knowledge of good and evil. The fruit was all about the knowledge of good and evil. Not having eternal life was just a consequnce of their actions. Indeed. But you're the one who wants to redefine reality - including the reality of the Bible.

No, that is not what it says. You're making that up. There's nothing obvious about that. Why would you?

Why not? Adam and Eve followed his "teaching" and they became more like God. That sounds like a pretty good "teaching" to me. Isn't that what teaching is all about? You need to stop thinking of the snake as an entity. The snake character reflects the human's natural inclination toward curiosity. What the snake said was what Eve was thinking. Bingo.