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Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7296
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 226 of 297 (869080)
12-23-2019 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by Faith
12-23-2019 2:07 AM


Re: True Conversion
Faith writes:

It's amazing how such a complete system of thought can be accused of being made up, but you guys have to find something wrong with it.

A system of thought, is, by definition, made up.

There is no conversion to any other religion, no actual change as there is in Christianity.

They say there is.

People choose other religions but they don't convert in the sense I'm describing. There's only one true God, the God of the Bible.

They say different.

Take it or leave it, Tangle,

I left it.

I'm telling you what I know but you don't have to accept it. You can always make up whatever you want, assume I'm just partisan etc.

You're telling me what you believe and what you've made up and simply denying what others say about their conversions. Why should I accept what you say? You're so provably wrong about everything else, why should anyone accept your story as correct?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Faith, posted 12-23-2019 2:07 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Faith, posted 12-23-2019 2:24 AM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34460
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 227 of 297 (869081)
12-23-2019 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Tangle
12-23-2019 2:22 AM


Re: True Conversion
AbE Ya know what? You need to acknowledge that I answered your query about conversion. You asked a question, I answered it with the Christian point of view. Your opinion is another subject. ////

Other religions do NOT say conversion involves a change in one's nature. Prove it. They do often imitate Christianity (the very idea of faith comes from Christianity, there is no real faith in other religions. They are all lies. You assume they are all on the same level but no, they are imitations and inventions, only Biblical religion is true.)

so maybe you'll find an example somewhere but then there won't be any kind of theological system tol support it as I laid out. And how silly of you to say so flatly that a system is by definition made up. Anything at all to say something negative I guess, no need to be logical about it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Tangle, posted 12-23-2019 2:22 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by jar, posted 12-23-2019 7:07 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 233 by Tangle, posted 12-23-2019 11:07 AM Faith has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13571
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 228 of 297 (869082)
12-23-2019 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by jar
12-22-2019 6:35 PM


Re: True Conversion
You say you are a believer. Have you thrown anything (or anyone_) significant away?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by jar, posted 12-22-2019 6:35 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by jar, posted 12-23-2019 7:12 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32031
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 229 of 297 (869095)
12-23-2019 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Faith
12-23-2019 2:24 AM


Re: True Conversion
Faith writes:

You asked a question, I answered it with the Christian point of view. Your opinion is another subject.

Not the Christian point of view Faith but only the dogma of your cult.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Faith, posted 12-23-2019 2:24 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32031
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 230 of 297 (869096)
12-23-2019 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by Thugpreacha
12-23-2019 2:55 AM


Re: True Conversion
Phat writes:

You say you are a believer. Have you thrown anything (or anyone_) significant away?

Yes Phat, all the God(s) and god(s) that have even been discussed in the Bible or any other sacred text as well as what you call "Mainstream Christianity". I understand that GOD, if GOD exists is not any of the God(s) or god(s) found in the Bible or in any of the other religions. I understand that Christianity is MY chosen path but not "THE" path. I understand that the God Characters in the Bible are all flawed imaginations of simple humans.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-23-2019 2:55 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-25-2019 10:35 AM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17835
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 231 of 297 (869109)
12-23-2019 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Thugpreacha
12-22-2019 4:12 PM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
Phat writes:

Of course, you never have bought into the idea that God allowed Satan to exist only to validate the concept of free will.


Wrong. I once bought into all of the same nonsense that you buy into. The difference is that I realized it was worthless so I returned it and got my money back.

The whole idea of Satan being "the bad guy" is nonsense. And the whole idea of free will is useless.

Phat writes:

I have a belief that God uses other points of view and beliefs in order to challenge and strengthen my own.


Or maybe He's trying to cure you of those beliefs.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-22-2019 4:12 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-23-2019 11:40 AM ringo has responded
 Message 238 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-23-2019 12:14 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17835
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 232 of 297 (869110)
12-23-2019 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by Faith
12-22-2019 6:10 PM


Re: True Conversion
Faith writes:

We need to be converted, actually changed in our nature, in order to be suited to the environment of heaven and God's presence....


Heaven must be REALLY, REALLY LOUD!

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 12-22-2019 6:10 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7296
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 233 of 297 (869111)
12-23-2019 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Faith
12-23-2019 2:24 AM


Re: True Conversion
Faith writes:

...there is no real faith in other religions. They are all lies.

All science is wrong, all other faiths are lies, all other Christians are false but somehow you got it right.

I'm done with you for this year at least.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Faith, posted 12-23-2019 2:24 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Faith, posted 12-23-2019 11:21 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34460
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 234 of 297 (869113)
12-23-2019 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by Tangle
12-23-2019 11:07 AM


Re: True Conversion
yeah, well since you got most of what I say wrong I'm through with you for the rest of the year too.

Merry Christmas and Happy New year anyway.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Tangle, posted 12-23-2019 11:07 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13571
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 235 of 297 (869116)
12-23-2019 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by ringo
12-23-2019 11:01 AM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
I once bought into all of the same nonsense that you buy into. The difference is that I realized it was worthless so I returned it and got my money back.

What specifically clued you into the worthlessness of the product? Was it the Deity Himself or was it other believers being hypocritical?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by ringo, posted 12-23-2019 11:01 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by ringo, posted 12-23-2019 11:53 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17835
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 236 of 297 (869117)
12-23-2019 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Thugpreacha
12-23-2019 11:40 AM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
Phat writes:

What specifically clued you into the worthlessness of the product?


It wasn't one flash of inspiration like you guys seem to want. It was years of mind-numbing stupidity.

Phat writes:

Was it the Deity Himself...


What deity? If somebody claims there's an all-powerful deity and a dangerous "enemy", why would I believe anything they say?

Phat writes:

...or was it other believers being hypocritical?


I'm not too concerned about hypocrisy. It's the stupidity of the theology that bothers me. (And I think that deep down you must know how stupid the theology is because you consistently refuse to defend it.)

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-23-2019 11:40 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-23-2019 12:06 PM ringo has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13571
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 237 of 297 (869118)
12-23-2019 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by ringo
12-23-2019 11:53 AM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
ringo writes:

It's the stupidity of the theology that bothers me. (And I think that deep down you must know how stupid the theology is because you consistently refuse to defend it.)

God, if God exists needs no defending from me. All I can do is to attempt to understand why I embrace an admittedly irrational belief. Much of Biblical Theology is irrational from a human-centric perspective. But a few questions:
  • Why is the concept of God in general irrational?
  • Why are so many millions of people somehow deceived where ringo of Saskatchewan one day concludes that critical thinking and evidence suddenly appear so shiningly logical and obvious? Seems to me that you preferred believing in something that you could somewhat fully understand.

    I will admit that the second point only applies to me personally in that I have a hunch that the ultimate answer will not be so stunningly obvious. It was designed to be a mystery. Either humans are en masse deceived pro or con.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
    "~Thugpreacha

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
    ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 236 by ringo, posted 12-23-2019 11:53 AM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 239 by ringo, posted 12-23-2019 12:19 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

      
    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 13571
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 238 of 297 (869119)
    12-23-2019 12:14 PM
    Reply to: Message 231 by ringo
    12-23-2019 11:01 AM


    Re: The spirit was strong on this one
    ringo writes:

    The whole idea of Satan being "the bad guy" is nonsense. And the whole idea of free will is useless.

    Time to revisit this argument.

    So the legend goes, there were three archangels. Michael, Gabrial, and Lucifer.
    You know the story.(The dogmatic version, at any rate)

    Why is the concept of angels so glaringly illogical? And why is the idea that one of them would decide to drink his own Kool-Aid rather than the corporate version so preposterous? He was like you. He decided to think for himself rather than listen to the Boss. It was designed to happen.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
    "~Thugpreacha

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
    ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 231 by ringo, posted 12-23-2019 11:01 AM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 240 by ringo, posted 12-23-2019 12:24 PM Thugpreacha has responded
     Message 241 by Tangle, posted 12-23-2019 1:23 PM Thugpreacha has responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 17835
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 2.5


    Message 239 of 297 (869120)
    12-23-2019 12:19 PM
    Reply to: Message 237 by Thugpreacha
    12-23-2019 12:06 PM


    Re: The spirit was strong on this one
    Phat writes:

    God, if God exists needs no defending from me.


    That's the kind of bullshit that drove me away from Christianity.

    Phat writes:

    Why is the concept of God in general irrational?


    I wouldn't say its irrational. I'd say it's unfounded in reality.

    Phat writes:

    Why are so many millions of people somehow deceived...


    You should ask yourself the honest question: Why do so many millions of people disagree with your theology?

    Phat writes:

    ...where ringo of Saskatchewan one day concludes that critical thinking and evidence suddenly appear so shiningly logical and obvious?


    You already know the answer to that. Critical thinking and evidence work. They produced the computer you're looking at, the car you drive, etc.

    Phat writes:

    Seems to me that you preferred believing in something that you could somewhat fully understand.


    Why would you prefer believing in something you don't understand?

    "If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
    -- Rudyard Kipling

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 237 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-23-2019 12:06 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 17835
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 2.5


    Message 240 of 297 (869121)
    12-23-2019 12:24 PM
    Reply to: Message 238 by Thugpreacha
    12-23-2019 12:14 PM


    Re: The spirit was strong on this one
    Phat writes:

    Why is the concept of angels so glaringly illogical?


    I didn't say it was.

    The idea of a good God creating evil angels is glaringly stupid.

    Phat writes:

    And why is the idea that one of them would decide to drink his own Kool-Aid rather than the corporate version so preposterous?


    Because he would have known from the beginning that he couldn't win.

    Phat writes:

    He was like you. He decided to think for himself rather than listen to the Boss.


    Of course. Always, always ,always think for yourself. Always. Always. Always. How can you even dispute that?

    "If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
    -- Rudyard Kipling

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 238 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-23-2019 12:14 PM Thugpreacha has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 283 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-28-2019 3:28 PM ringo has responded

      
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