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Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
Phat
Member
Posts: 14672
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 526 of 531 (872116)
02-20-2020 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 525 by ringo
02-20-2020 11:33 AM


Re: There you go putting limits on God yet again.
I suppose it *could* suggest that. Remember the Israelites? How they knew what their responsibilities were before God and yet they kept slipping? Worshipping other things? getting greedy for the spoils of war? Maybe even fudging a bit and putting words in Gods' mouth? Words such as "kill all of the enemies women and children...(except rape the women first) We can get back to your assertion that without evidence there is no reason to believe in God....and we can discuss the nature and character of such a God should One exist...yet you seem to stand on the idea that He is unnecessary. Maybe that is so for you. He gives you that freedom. And to be honest, Christians ourselves are not often his best advertisement. We all fall short. None of us does enough. His banquet is symbolic, however. It is about food that nourishes the soul. if you can find it without religion, more power to you...but it is my belief that you will never find it without Him, since He is the bread of life. he is not standing in a lineup with a spaghetti monster, Buddha, and Muhammed.

And I don't care what the character in the book said about giving away everything as a theme. Ultimately it is true but noone expects us to feed and clothe everyone and leaving ourselves with nothing. You yourself don't even believe that He exists, yet you would embrace a socialist society. fact is, there isn't one yet and anyone who sells everything and waits for their comrades to help them will end up freezing to death while they wait.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 525 by ringo, posted 02-20-2020 11:33 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 527 by ringo, posted 02-20-2020 12:21 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 530 by Tangle, posted 02-20-2020 1:38 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 531 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-20-2020 2:00 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18800
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 527 of 531 (872117)
02-20-2020 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by Phat
02-20-2020 12:04 PM


Re: There you go putting limits on God yet again.
Phat writes:

Remember the Israelites? How they knew what their responsibilities were before God and yet they kept slipping? Worshipping other things? getting greedy for the spoils of war?

Yes, that suggests that there was no real "communion", that it was a one-way street with the priests telling the people what God wanted.

Phat writes:

Maybe even fudging a bit and putting words in Gods' mouth? Words such as "kill all of the enemies women and children...(except rape the women first)

You're making that up. As far as we know, those words came directly from God, just like, "Love thy neighbour."

Phat writes:

... you seem to stand on the idea that He is unnecessary.

There's no "seem" about it. Unless you can demonstrate otherwise, He is as unnecessary as a herd of unicorns.

Phat writes:

It is about food that nourishes the soul. if you can find it without religion, more power to you...but it is my belief that you will never find it without Him, since He is the bread of life.

What if it's poison? (Jim Jones.)

Phat writes:

he is not standing in a lineup with a spaghetti monster, Buddha, and Muhammed.

He really is though.

Phat writes:

... noone expects us to feed and clothe everyone and leaving ourselves with nothing.

Jesus did. He said God would take care of you if you had faith.

And I don't care how much you malign the book. It carries more weight than your wishful thinking.

Phat writes:

You yourself don't even believe that He exists, yet you would embrace a socialist society.

I embrace a socialist society because we are an inherently social species. We are a socialist society despite the evil forces that support selfishness.

And our socialist society is necessary because there is no God to do it for us.

Phat writes:

fact is, there isn't one yet...

Have you driven on a road lately? Did you build it yourself?

Phat writes:

... anyone who sells everything and waits for their comrades to help them will end up freezing to death while they wait.

Tell it to Jesus.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 02-20-2020 12:04 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 528 of 531 (872118)
02-20-2020 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 516 by Phat
02-18-2020 7:25 PM


Re: There you go putting limits on God yet again.
Otherwise we may as well throw Him away. Do you seriously think im stupid enough to believe that GOD loves pond scum as much as humans? What an all inclusive heneric form of a Deity that would be.


When I see obscure creatures or organisms, I think of what possible relevance would it be for God to have specifically created it -- assuming that a God exists, of course. And its just one more reason that makes me doubt it -- or that if a God of sorts exists that it be more deistic than theistic.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by Phat, posted 02-18-2020 7:25 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 529 of 531 (872119)
02-20-2020 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by Phat
02-19-2020 3:19 PM


Re: There you go putting limits on God yet again.
I believe that God chose to focus on humans rather than simply all lifeforms on the planet. Jesus did not simply sit around sniffing flowers and relishing in the things His Father created. One can speculate, I suppose.


Yeah, and that doesn't strike you as odd? Why are there millions upon millions of different species if there was not some relevance to them? The bible, written by humans, is notoriously human-centric. Go figure.
quote:
Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

I dunno, Jesus, because I have no idea how you measure worth. Are we more valuable than the birds of the air? Do they suffer for endless and timeless eternity for daring to ask such a heretical question? Seems to me being a human is both a blessing and a curse.

I look at the simplistic pleasures of my dogs... There is an unmistakable intelligence there. An unmistakable love and joy. They just want to be around me and to express love for me and to have me express it back to them. There's no ulterior motive. Its genuine. Simple. Beautiful. And yet we are taught that when they die, they just die. But when we die we enter on to eternity... or so we're told.

But this kind of human-centric thinking belies credibility that God spent all this time creating all these other things to only focus on us. It really makes you question whether God created man or whether man created God.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by Phat, posted 02-19-2020 3:19 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7956
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 530 of 531 (872121)
02-20-2020 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by Phat
02-20-2020 12:04 PM


Re: There you go putting limits on God yet again.
Phat writes:

And I don't care what the character in the book said about giving away everything as a theme.


Woops! That character was Jesus. Doesn't that matter?

Ultimately it is true but noone expects us to feed and clothe everyone and leaving ourselves with nothing.


The 'no-one' here is you and us. And it's us that reckon it's ok not to do what the book says you must. Your god said that you should do it.

But of course no-one actually does do it, especially the established churches that bask in wealth. What I don't get is why you don't appear to think that this is a problem. You're deciding you know better than your god? You don't actually believe in him do you?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 02-20-2020 12:04 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 531 of 531 (872123)
02-20-2020 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by Phat
02-20-2020 12:04 PM


Re: There you go putting limits on God yet again.
Ultimately it is true but noone expects us to feed and clothe everyone and leaving ourselves with nothing.

Only if you want to be perfect in the eyes of God.
quote:
Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” “Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.”

“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 02-20-2020 12:04 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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