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Author Topic:   Why was there a need for a global flood?
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3265 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 6 of 68 (468426)
05-29-2008 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Wumpini
05-29-2008 11:29 AM


Re: It is an Example of Salvation through Faith and Obedience
God, who is the Creator, did not like the choices that His creation had made.
This is the sort of assertion I have a hard time wrapping my head around. If God is omniscient and knows the future, then even before he made Adam, he would have known about this necessity. He would have known that he would need to effectively start over with his little "humanity" experiment.
Now, when a human sets up a prototype or an experiment, and after running it for a while, finds that there is a problem, or the design wasn't as good as they would have liked, it is quite logical to take what seems to be working, throw the rest out and try again. In fact, that's the way most of our great inventions came about.
I don't think we can say the same thing about an omniscient god, however. It's sort of the same as our inventor making something he knows won't work, spending time on it, but not doing anything to effectively fix the error, and letting it run until it starts to set his house on fire. It would definitely make sense, at that point, to toss the invention out and start again, but I would hardly blame the invention for starting a fire, when it was obvious to the inventor that that was a distinct possibility. When you add in the fact that God KNEW for certain how his experiment would go, it seems to me that the blame for the wickedness of humanity rests solely at his feet, and all those lives that were brought into the world only to be snuffed out are a serious breach of ethics on his part.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Wumpini, posted 05-29-2008 11:29 AM Wumpini has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by iano, posted 05-29-2008 4:55 PM Perdition has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3265 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 13 of 68 (468473)
05-29-2008 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by iano
05-29-2008 4:55 PM


Re: It is an Example of Salvation through Faith and Obedience
If God doesn't see into the future (because he is 'outside' time, meaning that there is no such thing as future to see into - from his perspective) then one way to know about things that happen in (what we conceive of as) the future (because we are 'inside' time) is by observing them - now.
I understand this, I use the word "future" because it is the colloquial word we use in our temporal existence. So, we're left with two possibilities:
1) God, seeing what is happening at one time, can change something in another time in order to make a bad situation not happen, or
2) God can't affect what we call the future because it's all happening at the same time to him.
If option one is right, then we're still stuck with the situation that God knew wickedness would overrun the planet, requiring a global flood, and yet he did nothing to try and change that outcome, thereby consigning all those people to death. In my mind, that is highly unethical. We don't even let clinicians do human trials if there is a possibility of harm to the people involved.
If option two is right, then we're left with an impotent God. One who created because he had to, and has to no way to affect the creation. In other words, we have a purely Deistic Universe, where God winds the clock and then things play out according to Natural Laws. This is hardly the God of the Bible.
I'm not sure anything went wrong with the experiment. Man was created with an ability to choose. Man choose. That's a success.
If Gods plan was to create beings who could choose to spend eternity with him or eternity without him (the fundamental basis of any good relationship being choice for/against) - and that is what he ends up with: some with him and some without him then I can't see that his plan hasn't worked according to plan.
Ok, if that was his Plan, then it was a success. People chose not to be with God. But apparantly God wasn't happy with that outcome, so he wiped everything out and hit the 'Reset' button. So, he's OK with post facto deck stacking, but not changing the intial conditions so he wouldn't have to destroy all those lives, both human and animal. Again, that leaves us with what I would consider an unethical God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by iano, posted 05-29-2008 4:55 PM iano has not replied

  
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