Believing in God, But Not Literally

1.6, I'm talking about educated religious belief not a much of claptrap about virgin births and floods and the like.However, the concept of "sin" is something serious--and complicated.But I will tell you what "faith" means: it does not mean believing something with no evidence. What it means is maintaining one's open-mindedness about one's religious belief in the face of what appears to be contrary evidence.A mother loses her wonderful, promising child in a freak accident that is nobody's fault. She says to herself, quite reasonably, how could God do this? Either there is no God or he is a cruel being.When something traumatic happens, we tend to define the entire universe based on that traumatic event. Faith tells us not to do this--or at least to try not to. Look at the big picture. Do not define the universe by one incident, or one thought, or one feeling.

That is EXACTLY what I was talking about! Thank you Asgara for getting the topic back on track. My whole question is why do people believe in the "God-idea", as stated by the above quote, instead of believing in God or not believing at all? I did not mean this topic to be a discussion on whether God exists or not, or whether it is rational to believe in God or not. For the sake of argument and simplification, let's just assume that God exists (even if that's a "leap of faith" for some - sorry couldn't resist the pun ). So even with the assumption that God exists, some will believe in God and some will not. I'm not concerned about either of those groups. My intention was to discuss the third group, the ones that only believe in the "God-idea". Now if you change the original assumption to "God does not exist", you still end up with the same three groups of people. So therefore, the question of whether God actually exists or not is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

It is not so easy to distinguish between those who believe in the God-idea and those who believe in God.Religious belief is not just for the educated but for anybody. The uneducated may express themselves in a way that suggests that they only believe because they have been told to, but this may not accurately portray their true spiritual state.Religion is more about the integrity of your belief, rather than the belief itself. A doctrine may not be understood very well by a believer, and therefore it may come across in his statements as ridiculous to the educated.But there are many people who claim to be religious--if you ask them--who in fact are not religious at all. There never give it a moment's thought.

Good points, and I agree. But do you think this happens only in uneducated religious people? I don't think that's true, because I've met people like this that are very educated. Perhaps you meant "educated" referring only to religion, in which case I agree. I once heard a quote to the effect of "most people's religious education stops when they are teenagers, and they spent the rest of their lives studying religion only at that level. They never learn 'adult religion'". Sorry I can't remember the exact quote nor who said it. I've noticed that most religious people I know have little interest in learning any more than they already know about their own religions. I'm not sure if this is wide-spread or just a localized thing restricted to the people I hang around, though.

Exactly. That was the point I was trying to make about some of the negative criticism of religious belief I've been reading on this forum. They are criticizing a cartoon-version of religious beleif which is what they remember from their childhood, perhaps.I'll finish the thought later. Interruptions.

Well then, please enlighten us as to what an 'adult' religion is. Does it mean to transcend the organized religions dogmas and superstition to form one's own view of god or something to that effect?

I'm not sure I'm qualified enough to talk about "adult religion" but perhaps I might start a new topic and give it a try. I'm somewhat educated on the subject. And maybe there are others who can help me out and make corrections when I screw up.And no, it's not about one's own view of God.This message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-05-2005 19:41 AM

Please do start a new topic if you have the time. I for one think it would be very interesting.

The problem is the subject is too big.Perhaps somebody can suggest how to limit it, what to concentrate on.

True, but in all fairness it's not just the fault of the people doing the criticizing. The truth of the matter is that many religious people DO practice a cartoon-version of religious beliefs, so that's the only thing others see. I would wager that most religious people aren't even aware that there is an "adult version" that they haven't been exposed to. I'm sure they all would think their own version is the adult version, but that's kind of like how everybody thinks of themselves as a good driver and it's just everyone else that can't drive. I think it would make a very interesting new topic as well. But if it's not really about one's own view of God, then does it still relate to what I was asking?

That's true. Perhaps I flew off the handle. The remark about faith meaning believing something for which there is no evidence irritated me. If you are asking if belief in the "God-idea" corresponds to the cartoon version and belief in God corresponds to the adult version, I would say not necessarily. I'm referring to what I said above about education not being necessary for sincere religious belief.

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Now why would a religious belief keep us ignorant? No reason that I can see. Why wouldn't an intelligent religious person want to learn as much as a non-religious person?

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quite possibly, buts thats uselss if their faith also leads them to believe that the only viable source of knowledge is an ancient book.It is precisely becuasse the methodology of religion is one of obscurantism rather than investigation that makes religion a form of self-imposed ignorance.

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Exactly. That was the point I was trying to make about some of the negative criticism of religious belief I've been reading on this forum. They are criticizing a cartoon-version of religious beleif which is what they remember from their childhood, perhaps.

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Thats an invalid assumption. I experienced religion as actively anti-intellectual and purposefully suppressing investigation and instead channelling it into blind adoration when I was a teenager, and this was certainly carried out by active, ministering, adults.It is not a cartoon version. It is an accurate depiction of the actual conduct of religion in the real world.

I think you're both right - it is a cartoon-version, but it is also an accurate depiction of religion that way most people practice it.