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Author
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Topic: Is it 'boring' being God?
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Message 181 of 207 (287557)
02-17-2006 8:32 AM
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Reply to: Message 177 by Silent H
02-17-2006 7:44 AM
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Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
You seem to have missed the point I was making. How and when does an infinite being ever have the right to get jealous and angry? Other than of course the ability to grant themself the right to be angry. like when we sin, God has a right then to get angry, It's called righteous anger. So do we in similar circumsances.
Love thy enemy, forgive those that trespass against you, turn the other cheek. Apparently whether one has a right to be angry, does not mean that one should exercise that right. yes you are right. In a lot of cases it is not helpful to get angry.
Once again you miss the point. Whether he cannot or will not makes no difference. You can end your infinite qualities in practice. Maybe what you mean is that he was once infinite and has the potential for infinite greatness? yes what he will do is limited, so what? would you like a God that lied, cheated and so on? This however does not affect how large his greatness actually is, it just affects how he uses it. And he still has potential for "willful" greatness
could God make a rock so bit he couldn't lift it? you cannot compare two infinites.
I said it wasn't wise, and you explained how two things are different. They may be different regarding some qualities but not with regards to wisdom. If one is going to be upset and angry and jealous creating a world that is not perfect is as unwise as creating a world which has the ability to be imperfect. I might add that if he is infinitely wise he WOULD KNOW IN ADVANCE this world would end in imperfection, and thus chose to create a world which was imperfect. tell me this. how could he create something that would love him truly (with free will) and be perfect in whole. He would have to create something the exact way he did us to even get love, and create robots for (moral) perfection. It is not his fault, but ours. Not his lack of wisdom, but ours. He had NOTHING to do with
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 177 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 7:44 AM | | Silent H has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 186 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 10:15 AM | | dorkfrommarn has replied |
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
Well, the people who would actually be affected by the decisions as to right or wrong would be better. NO!! have you seen how stupid people are??? If we chose what was right and wrong this world would be ten times worse than it already is!
I hear that a lot from people whose plans end up not working at all. What kind of dumbass would institute a plan that needs to be done perfectly knowing bloody well that the plan simply is not going to be followed as perfectly as necessary? Thats why Jesus was sent. God knew that system wouldn't work so he made the modification we have now This message has been edited by dorkfrommarn, 02-17-2006 08:44 AM
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
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have you seen how stupid people are?
Let's see...God put into place a system that consigns billions of people to eternal damnation. God decides his project was a failure to decides to drown the entire world with a global flood. God chooses one tribe out of the entire world and gives them permission to commit genocide so that they could have a country of their own. Sorry, but as stupid as people could be, other people can be smart and mistakes can be correct. Your own Bible shows the weaknesses of totalitarian dictatorship. -
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Thats why Jesus was sent. God knew that system wouldn't work so he made the modification we have now
Ah, and you continue to say that people are stupid. Instead of admitting that he has overbearing and pompous, admitting that his system doesn't work, apologizing for his mistakes, and then trying to treat human beings as, well, human beings, he "fixes" the problem (which is the problem he started!) by sending a physical incarnation of himself to be crucified by the Romans as some sort of sacrifice, and this somehow makes things better. For a few people. Those who choose to be sycophants. God can't possibly be bored. He must spend a lot of time thinking about how he's screwed up yet again, and what sort of "solutions" he can come up with this time.
"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
Let's see...God put into place a system that consigns billions of people to eternal damnation. God decides his project was a failure to decides to drown the entire world with a global flood. God chooses one tribe out of the entire world and gives them permission to commit genocide so that they could have a country of their own. Sorry, but as stupid as people could be, other people can be smart and mistakes can be correct. Your own Bible shows the weaknesses of totalitarian dictatorship. - God knew that WE would screw up, he didn't want us to but we still did. The bible show the weaknesses of totalitarian dictatorship in the hands of those imperfect
Ah, and you continue to say that people are stupid. Instead of admitting that he has overbearing and pompous, admitting that his system doesn't work, apologizing for his mistakes, and then trying to treat human beings as, well, human beings, he "fixes" the problem (which is the problem he started!) by sending a physical incarnation of himself to be crucified by the Romans as some sort of sacrifice, and this somehow makes things better. For a few people. Those who choose to be sycophants. God can't possibly be bored. He must spend a lot of time thinking about how he's screwed up yet again, and what sort of "solutions" he can come up with this time. His system doesn't have flaws, we do. God is perfect, we're the screw ups. He cannot make us choose the right thing, he wants us to but, we don't always. (sorry I didn't go into more detail I have to leave really soon)
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
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God knew that WE would screw up....
And continued with his plans knowing that billions would end up suffering eternal torment. I can't see how this kind of irresponsibility can be termed "perfect". Well, maybe we can call God the perfect screw up. -
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His system doesn't have flaws, we do.
Billions of people end up suffering eternal torment. That sounds like a flawed system to me. -
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(sorry I didn't go into more detail I have to leave really soon)
That's okay. I really don't think you can make any of this seem reasonable or logical. No put down on you; I think that no one can really make any of this seem at all reasonable.
"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5846 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: 12-11-2002
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Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
yes you are right. In a lot of cases it is not helpful to get angry.
Right, and not only not helpful but forbidden to mortals where it actually might make a difference in their lives. In any case you did not address my point. A right to not love does not mean that when they choose not to love they retain an infinite love. By choice they have lost it.
would you like a God that lied, cheated and so on?
Well I just showed you that yours does, he admits it in his autobiography. Maybe the question is more importantly placed to you than to me.
And he still has potential for "willful" greatness
Okay, if you want to claim he has the potential for infinite greatness then that's fine. You said he is infinitely great and that is clearly not the case at this point in time.
you cannot compare two infinites.
See, you just didn't understand my point. I was approaching the conundrum from a different vantage point. Rather than making something infinite, he reduced his own infinity to finite and imparted a finiteness greater than his own to the "rock".
how could he create something that would love him truly (with free will) and be perfect in whole.
Why is something loving him without free will exhibiting a less true love than those with free will? And if granting free will, why could he not have created a situation where he would actually be able to care for those he created such that they'd have a reason to love him for his deeds rather than out of fear and subservience? But this is besides the point. By giving others free will he did give up his infinite greatness.
It is not his fault, but ours. Not his lack of wisdom, but ours. He had NOTHING to do with I'm sorry he had nothing to do with what? Is that where your head exploded when you realized you were just contradicting your whole position? You now have it that WE have the power to counter his plans. I might ask why a being with infinite wisdom would need true love, and why he would expect to get it from a world he knew would be imperfect and so not deliver what he wanted, thus making him angry?
holmes "What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5846 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: 12-11-2002
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Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
God chooses one tribe out of the entire world and gives them permission to commit genocide so that they could have a country of their own. Wait you forgot the ending... he then gets angry and allows that nation to be destroyed (which made the whole genocide pointless), only to announce that once that nation rises again and a massacre follows, he will return to commit genocide and form a whole new kingdom on earth. Shit, why didn't I think of that! What brilliance.
holmes "What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 183 by Chiroptera, posted 02-17-2006 8:45 AM | | Chiroptera has not replied |
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2ice_baked_taters
Member (Idle past 5878 days) Posts: 566 From: Boulder Junction WI. Joined: 02-16-2006
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Message 188 of 207 (287689)
02-17-2006 2:00 PM
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Which God are we talking about here? I feel this forum has been allowed to run down one tunnel.
Lets aproach this question with this anology. Generalized: A child is easily bored. An adult will find something to do. project that beyond comprehension and as I said before. I believe that the term "boredom" is not remotely applicable to the notion of the God ...at least as I understand it.
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Message 189 of 207 (287727)
02-17-2006 3:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 187 by Silent H
02-17-2006 10:18 AM
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Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
God chooses one tribe out of the entire world and gives them permission to commit genocide so that they could have a country of their own. Wait you forgot the ending... he then gets angry and allows that nation to be destroyed (which made the whole genocide pointless), only to announce that once that nation rises again and a massacre follows, he will return to commit genocide and form a whole new kingdom on earth. Sh.t, why didn't I think of that! What brilliance. It would have worked had Isreal followed intructions
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 187 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 10:18 AM | | Silent H has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 192 by Omnivorous, posted 02-17-2006 3:36 PM | | dorkfrommarn has not replied |
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
Billions of people end up suffering eternal torment. That sounds like a flawed system to me. no like I said in my previous post we have a choice and it is a fair system. out fault, not God's, not the systems, our fault. I feel I have made this extremely clear.
That's okay. I really don't think you can make any of this seem reasonable or logical. No put down on you; I think that no one can really make any of this seem at all reasonable. can you point out the flaw in my logic, if you want to continue please do, but just repeating the same thing over isnt particularly helpful
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Message 191 of 207 (287733)
02-17-2006 3:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 186 by Silent H
02-17-2006 10:15 AM
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Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
Right, and not only not helpful but forbidden to mortals where it actually might make a difference in their lives. notice I didn't say ALL cases. Where it would benefit it is allowed.
In any case you did not address my point. A right to not love does not mean that when they choose not to love they retain an infinite love. By choice they have lost it. righteous anger is part of love, thats how you tell someone that they are wrong and make sure they know you mean it.
Well I just showed you that yours does, he admits it in his autobiography. Maybe the question is more importantly placed to you than to me. when did this happen?
Okay, if you want to claim he has the potential for infinite greatness then that's fine. You said he is infinitely great and that is clearly not the case at this point in time. when you have a dictator, you say he is a dictator whether he will do something or not.
See, you just didn't understand my point. I was approaching the conundrum from a different vantage point. Rather than making something infinite, he reduced his own infinity to finite and imparted a finiteness greater than his own to the "rock". what was your point?
Why is something loving him without free will exhibiting a less true love than those with free will? And if granting free will, why could he not have created a situation where he would actually be able to care for those he created such that they'd have a reason to love him for his deeds rather than out of fear and subservience? But this is besides the point. By giving others free will he did give up his infinite greatness. thats the exact situation we are in now. He has made a way so we don't have to be perfect.
I'm sorry he had nothing to do with what? Is that where your head exploded when you realized you were just contradicting your whole position? You now have it that WE have the power to counter his plans. he had nothing to do with the screw ups in the world, and my head is perfectly fine right now. Yes we have the power to counter his plans, I never had it any other way.
I might ask why a being with infinite wisdom would need true love, and why he would expect to get it from a world he knew would be imperfect and so not deliver what he wanted, thus making him angry? He knew that he would not get all he wanted, but there was no other way for him to get any of what he wanted
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 186 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 10:15 AM | | Silent H has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 196 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 4:40 PM | | dorkfrommarn has replied |
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Omnivorous
Member Posts: 3990 From: Adirondackia Joined: 07-21-2005 Member Rating: 6.9
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Failure is never boring.
dorkfrommarn writes: It would have worked had Isreal followed intructions. You have to admit His batting average ain't too good: a sizable percentage of the angels, most of humankind, and His chosen people's nation failed to meet expectations. If that percentage of my work assignments turned out that badly, I'd be looking for another job.
"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?" -Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night
Save lives! Click here!Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!---------------------------------------
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
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out fault, not God's, not the systems, our fault.
No, God knew what was going to happen in advance, and instead of taking into account that people would not do as he wanted, he went ahead and made the system knowing what the result was going to be. I guess in that case you can't call it a failure on God's part, since he knew what would happen, and so it must be part of his "plan", but it is pretty clearly a flawed plan. I can't think of any sort of criterion that would label this as a "success". -
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can you point out the flaw in my logic, if you want to continue please do....
Well, other than you haven't presented any logic, only assertians that you seem to think that we should accept as self-evident, I can't spot any. -
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but just repeating the same thing over isnt particularly helpful
I agree -- maybe you should try a different tact in your, uh, "argument".
"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Re: Failure is never boring.
You know, omnivorous, in my College Algebra class I'm going to teach the students Point Set Topology and Functional Analysis instead. Of course most of them won't be capable of learning this material and will fail the course, but that shows how flawed they are not; my plan is clearly a good one.
"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 192 by Omnivorous, posted 02-17-2006 3:36 PM | | Omnivorous has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
No, God knew what was going to happen in advance, and instead of taking into account that people would not do as he wanted, he went ahead and made the system knowing what the result was going to be. I guess in that case you can't call it a failure on God's part, since he knew what would happen, and so it must be part of his "plan", but it is pretty clearly a flawed plan. I can't think of any sort of criterion that would label this as a "success". Assuming this is the case, it's a tremendous success. We have free will by virtue of the incorporeality of our minds. We can sin all we like. I myself have had a high old time, thank you. I'll pay for it, of course, but it was worth it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 193 by Chiroptera, posted 02-17-2006 4:08 PM | | Chiroptera has not replied |
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