A Simple Statement of Faith

And no, it's not mine. Our good Karl kindly linked to a long thread on christianforums. Although the 23 pages were mostly the usual tedious creationist arguments ("if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes..."), the thread contains a number of excellent posts by the resident theistic evolutionists such as lucaspa. However, at the very end of the thread, I came across a post by a poster named Gracchus that is simply the most beautifully written statement of faith I have ever encountered. Read for yourself: These simple poetic sentences literally took my breath away. They show an understanding and vision of the majesty of the universe and Man's place within it that is both profound and inspiring. Although I don't share this person's theistic underpinnings, I do very much share his views in this matter. And I could never articulate it as well as this.Gracchus goes on to take creationists to task: I would be curious to hear how one of our resident creationists, say The General, or mike-the-wiz, or messenjah, would respond to this strong, confident believer - a person who appears to be quite sure of his faith and of his place in the universe.Theists like Gracchus I would be quite content to share my universe with.

grrrrr... damned pantheist! ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

Turn a rock and you will find me,
split a log and I am there.

Hearty amen to mr. Gracchus (or ms., sorry).

If his faith is so strong, why does he go on to attack a people of another faith with the 'second' statement ?'And in the rather pathetic little idols they worship,'Here is the first downfall, because I am Creationist I am instantly judged. And also I have never worshipped idols. No offense Quetzal but anyone can come up with a few pretty words.'and they worship the idols they created from ignorance and fear.'Now he carries on in judgement, not only do I have NO idols, but I am afraid and ignorant.Listen, you should get a better poem, personally this I think is crap of the highest caliber. To think the rocks and stars thing was a good start, but,'stars and stones and the truth of that inmost calm where I am rooted and dwell forever.'Listen you can worship stones and stars your whole life, but in the end I take more joy in, Love, Friendship, helping those without, actions make a better poem, but it seems I have already been judged by this person.

Huh? No they can't. Really good poetry is hard to write.

Please read my statement of faith crashfrog, and tell me is such judgement of me as a creationist necessary ?

But haven't you criticized others for placing their faith in men instead of God? Or for raising science as an idol?Isn't it a little hypocritical to complain about judgement when you yourself have sat in it? (Judgement, I mean.)I mean just look at some of Theologian's posts to get an idea of the kind of creationist attitude that this guy is coming down on.[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 08-13-2003]

But when have I sat in the judgement seat, i have never said anyone is more guilty or sinful than ME.Please find an occasion and qoute it, and I will deeply apologise and take it back. I know we make mistakes, but judging people is the thing I try to NOT do MOST. I beat myself up inside if I vere towards this road. This guy has accused me of worshipping idols, calling me pathetic and saying i am fearful and ignorant.

Actually I think he called your idols pathetic.Honestly is worshipping an idol such a bad thing to be called? Especially from a person who doesn't think he's worshipping the same god as you?

When have I said science is an idol ?'Actually I think he called your idols pathetic.'I do not worship graven images or idols! I'm shocked at you this time Crashfrog, have you read my statement, which doesn't accuse or judge anyone. I am losing respect for your statements rapidly at the moment.

But can't you see it's all a matter of perspective? If I don't believe in your god, your god is an idol to me.Honestly I don't see why the statement of somebody you don't even know is such a big deal to you. You're harping on the mote in his eye and overlooking the chip on your own shoulder.

'You're harping on the mote in his eye and overlooking the chip on your own shoulder.'Qoute where I have judged anyone, I am on fire now, if I don't get put out quickly I've a feeling I will never respond to you again.
Have you read my statement, have I judged you or anyone in it, reveal the chip on my shoulder quickly, i am seriously angry.
PLEASE QOUTE my judgements and explain the chip on my shoulder .

Well, a little searching turns this up: EvC Forum: Ever lasting life with or without God.Where you say: Now, to my mind that sounds like you're referring to the gods of a bunch of other religions as "false", which would be another way to refer to idol worship.Laregly you seem to be of the opinion that the God of the bible exists, and the gods of other religious faiths do not. That sounds just a little judgemental to me - and not different from what that other guy said.I apologize if I've misunderstood or mistated your position, but I really don't see why you're getting so upset. A guy who believes in a different god than you is telling you so. What's the harm? I don't find it any more objectionable than when Christians tell me I'm going to a hell that doesn't exist. What's to get upset about?

I am upset though, because you used Jesus' words against me, and if I am guilty of judging then I am very upset.When (the qoute) I said false god i meant gods made from wood or a golden calf, I have never said a person of another faith's God is false, I am referring to false gods as gods made by mens hands,statues e.t.c
I have cooled down now, though if i have 'seemed' to judge anyone or their religion , then I apologise, I am sorry I never intended this.