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Author Topic:   Atheist Frendly Q&A
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 25 of 110 (190965)
03-10-2005 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by PecosGeorge
03-10-2005 8:17 AM


Re: An honest question
Hey, Pecos George! As you may or may not know, I am a dispensationalist. I believe that God has dealt with humanity in different ways. To wit:
CL Stam writes:
Abraham lived before the dispensation of the law. How was he justified? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3).
David lived under the law. How was he justified? "David also describeth the blessedness of the man unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works" (Rom. 4:6).
You and I live after the law, under the dispensation of grace. How are we justified? "To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Rom. 4:5).
Now in the cases of Abraham and David, works were required for salvation, whereas in our case works for salvation are distinctly forbidden; yet it is clear from the passages above that Abraham, David and we were all saved essentially by grace through faith and that works as such have never had any saving value.
There were different ages...the age of innocence, the age of conscience, the age of law, the age of government(theocratic) the age of grace( which we are now in) This is why some of the early Bible seemed so horrendous. In an age of government, the interaction is between God and the government of the time. It was horrendous when God supposedly ordered the slaughter of pagan cultures...but what if a chapter was written where the Lord said to Bush, slaughter the Iraqi people. And in one week, 100,000 were dead! Would that have REALLY been God talking to the Bush, or would that have been the Bush claiming that he heard from God?

Truth is stranger than fiction because we have made fiction to suit ourselves.
-- G.K. Chesterson
It ain't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so.
-- Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by PecosGeorge, posted 03-10-2005 8:17 AM PecosGeorge has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 61 of 110 (191207)
03-12-2005 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by mikehager
03-11-2005 3:03 PM


Re: An honest question
Hi, Mike. It is indeed a mystery as to why God does not deal with Satan directly and instead exacts judgement on the individuals.
God, (and yes, Mike He does exist) did not directly kill the enemies of the Israelites. He knew that there would be conflict since it was His chosen against the unenlightened masses, and perhaps the exterminated pagans were foreknown to have had to die, anyway.
We can't feel sorry for them IF it was foreknown that there was some way out for them now, could we?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by mikehager, posted 03-11-2005 3:03 PM mikehager has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 69 of 110 (191272)
03-13-2005 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by mikehager
03-13-2005 2:08 AM


mikehagar writes:
Do you not believe in free will?
Yes, and because of it, I believe that IF there were a way out for the ancients that died, they most certainly refused it. The way out for them would be to bow to Israel and acknowledge that they were wrong.
Am I too absolutist in my positive assertions?
So, the Lord works in mysterious ways, does he? That's neat and simple. Isn't it nice how that stops questions from being asked?
You can ask Him all of the questions that you want. He is much more a friendly and tolerant than I am. I am admittedly a Christian jerk sometimes! If I keep it up, perhaps He may smite me!
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-13-2005 06:23 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by mikehager, posted 03-13-2005 2:08 AM mikehager has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 103 of 110 (192136)
03-17-2005 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Taqless
03-17-2005 10:51 AM


Re: Carnal Knowledge
tagless writes:
I always get a very different feel from the message that JC had concerning our lives, the treatment of other people, etc when compared to the message that the old testament had and definitely even the message that Paul gave....which always struck me as a fanatical/fundamental version of what JC taught.
Hey, Tagless! In my opinion, Jesus was always easier on common folk than common folk are on each other! The message of the O.T. was written for whoever reads it, as any good book is, but it was written TO the Jews. The message of the Gospels was also written TO the Jews as a fullfillment of their Messianic Kingdom.
God in His foreknowledge knew that Israel would reject their Messiah, so the message expanded when Paul was knocked off his high horse and converted. His message, directed at a new group of people known as the Body of Christ, was a mystery that was only unveiled at that time. It was a message unknown by any Prophets before, but known by God. Paul was human, and his message was fanatical because he was fanatical. It is not a judgemental message of rules, however.
Keep in mind that church folk are human and therefore very imperfect. The church is harder on its own than they need to be. We all were "smokers" at one point in our lives, and were it not for the Grace of God and that alone, we would still be "smokers"!
When Jesus speaks words of judgement, they are always directed at pompous Church folk who arrogantly assume divinity status.(Be they Pharisee of T.B.N. windbags.) Its not about trying to do all the right things, although doing good works will come naturally to a believer. It is about trusting the source of your inner spirit. The source originates with the Father, brought through the Son by The Holy Spirit into your heart.
People get mixed up when they assume that they can just do good things and still keep their own self will.(You cannot serve two masters.}
A believer is not a religious person, necessarily. A believer is one who has undergone a transformation of sorts. They do good things just because they feel an inner joy and unction to do so! That is God in us!
A common cliche? Christianity is NOT a religion. Man in his imperfection has tried to make it so. Christianity is a relationship, with the living Spirit that yearns to be within us.
Its not usually the people with the plastic haircuts and faithful churchgoing that have this Spirit. It is the common folk that shine like a light without trying to keep you in the dark!
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-17-2005 10:54 AM

This message is a reply to:
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