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Author | Topic: Open Question For Jerry Falwell (and those who agree with him) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
And it's not as if the natives didn't do their share of the murdering too. Oh but I forget. PC says that was the white man's fault too. And not just the white man, it's the Christians who were the really evil ones. Sigh.
Amazing how you are allowed to spit out silly false allegations here. It IS amazing, isn't it? It's pretty much representative of the place though, as you will find if you stick around.
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And it's not as if the natives didn't do their share of the murdering too. Oh but I forget. PC says that was the white man's fault too. And not just the white man, it's the Christians who were the really evil ones. Sigh. Not just wilfull ignorance but grade school playground justification. Are you saying that the mass murder, genocide and cultural destruction done by Christians and Christian Missionaries is justified becaues "they did it too?" In addition, you are one of the main proponents claiming that all the good we see is the result of some "Western Christian Society" and the US was formed as a "Christian Nation." Well if that is the case then it was also that Western Christian Society that was the inspiration for Stalin's Gulags and Hitlers Death Camps. The example we set in how we treated the Native Americans stands even today as the most efficient and complete genocide of a peoples the world has ever witnessed. That same Western Christian Society totally destroyed the peoples, cultures and religions of the Americas and is continuing its acts of destruction even today. One cannot claim the good without acknowledging the bad. We need to realize that while Christianity may do good, it has and is doing much that is evil. Even today, in the mainly Christian push to deprive people of their civil rights and liberties, Christianity is doing very great evil. It's time that Christians began to try to act Christlike. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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simple  Inactive Member |
quote:People do what they can get away with. What they get away with tells us much about the place they get away with it in, true.
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simple  Inactive Member |
quote:Christian missionaries never mass murdered anyone that I ever heard of. Nor did Jesus. What kind of nonsense are you spouting?
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SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5833 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
Christian missionaries never mass murdered anyone that I ever heard of. Nor did Jesus. What kind of nonsense are you spouting? You aren't too familiar with the history of the Americas are you? I recommend you study the history of what happened in north and south america from 1500-1800. In 200 years 95% of all people who had been leaving in north america were dead. Now, was this all christian missionaries? Of course not... but it was done by christians for the most part; often in the name of the church (particulary in spain's case). I am going to stop assuming that US history is required in high school.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
I recommend you study the history of what happened in north and south america from 1500-1800. In 200 years 95% of all people who had been leaving in north america were dead. Now, was this all christian missionaries? Of course not... but it was done by christians for the most part; often in the name of the church (particulary in spain's case). The thing is, people and their pomp have been distorting Jesus from the beginning. How anyone arrived at the conclusions that the Crusades or the Catholic Conquistadors were justified is beyond me. They did what they did and I'm certain that God is not silent on the issue. If we cannot truly repent then we cannot truly be granted amnesty under His grace. This is why Jesus stated that many will call Him by His name, but they will not be saved, because as He says, "I never knew you." People fall into the religious pit all the time, and good Christians get lumped in with the bad yeast. Its religiosity that masquerades as righteousness, and unfortunately, many fall into it. If ever I was going to give you good advice and to have you reject and forsake anything else that I say, take this one thing onboard. We don't judge Christ by Christians, judge Christians by Christ, as even the very name means 'Christ-like.'. Anytime a self-proclaimed Christian commits atrocities, such as what you described, never knew God. Jesus also warns that people will come in His name with the appearance of a sheep, but inwardly, they are ferocious wolves. There are only three types of people in this world: Sheeps, goats, and wolves, and by their fruits, you will recognize them.
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SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5833 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
If ever I was going to give you good advice and to have you reject and forsake anything else that I say, take this one thing onboard. We don't judge Christ by Christians, judge Christians by Christ, as even the very name means 'Christ-like.'. Anytime a self-proclaimed Christian commits atrocities, such as what you described, never knew God. Jesus also warns that people will come in His name with the appearance of a sheep, but inwardly, they are ferocious wolves. There are only three types of people in this world: Sheeps, goats, and wolves, and by their fruits, you will recognize them. Ok, well now at least I know how to judge evangelicals (falwell, robertson, dobson, and all their followers), prez bush, the religious right, etc. I'm glad to know that most self proclaimed christians never knew god I'm glad to know that I can tell who the real christians are by whether they do anything bad or not. In fact, I'm not sure we even have any here at EvC I so love the "no true christian" defense. Edited by SuperNintendo Chalmers, : No reason given.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
SNC writes: In 200 years 95% of all people who had been leaving in north america were dead. A large percentage of any people who "had been leaving" (I assume living) anywhere would be dead in 200 years. What exactly are you trying to say and where are you getting your stats? BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW
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simple  Inactive Member |
Nonsense. I never heard of missionaries killing anyone. Who did Livingstone mow down? What villages did he torch? None. How about William Duncan? He killed no one. (Missionary to natives on west coast of North America). Could you list say even 20 missionaries who were crazed mass murderers here as you seem to insinuate!!!? You are busted. -Phoney.
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simple  Inactive Member |
quote:Christianity is believing in Jesus, and trying to follow Him. No bad in there at all. It is the killers and such that claim Jesus wants then tioo do it that smell up the joint. That is the bad, not any real belief in the Prince of Peace.
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SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5833 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
Um, 95% of the population was wiped out. In other words only the population of native peoples was reduced to 5% of its former level.
Where am I getting my stats?..... Um, history textbooks.... Most modern textbooks cover this.
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SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5833 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
Since everyone here seems to be completely ignorant of even basic US history (big surprise, this happens almost every time a topic deals with US history) I guess I'll have to provide yet ANOTHER high school level refresher.
Genocide of Natives in the Western Hemisphere, starting 1492 CE Some excerpts:
"By then [1891] the native population had been reduced to 2.5% of its original numbers and 97.5% of the aboriginal land base had been expropriated....Hundreds upon hundreds of native tribes with unique languages, learning, customs, and cultures had simply been erased from the face of the earth, most often without even the pretense of justice or law." Peter Montague
Later European Christian invaders systematically murdered additional Aboriginal people, from the Canadian Arctic to South America. They used warfare, death marches, forced relocation to barren lands, destruction of their main food supply -- the Buffalo -- and poisoning. Oppression continued into the 20th century, through actions by governments and religious organizations which systematically destroyed Native culture and religious heritage. One present-day byproduct of this oppression is suicide. Today, Canadian Natives have the highest suicide rate of any identifiable population group in the world. Columbus described the Arawaks -- the Native people in the West Indies -- as timid, artless, free, and generous. He rewarded them with death and slavery. For his second voyage to the Americas, "Columbus took the title 'Admiral of the Ocean Sea' and proceeded to unleash a reign of terror unlike anything seen before or since. When he was finished, eight million Arawaks -- virtually the entire native population of Hispaniola -- had been exterminated by torture, murder, forced labor, starvation, disease and despair." 1 A Spanish missionary, Bartolome de las Casas, described eye-witness accounts of mass murder, torture and rape. 2 Author Barry Lopez, summarizing Las Casas' report wrote: "One day, in front of Las Casas, the Spanish dismembered, beheaded, or raped 3000 people. 'Such inhumanities and barbarisms were committed in my sight,' he says, 'as no age can parallel....' The Spanish cut off the legs of children who ran from them. They poured people full of boiling soap. They made bets as to who, with one sweep of his sword, could cut a person in half. They loosed dogs that 'devoured an Indian like a hog, at first sight, in less than a moment.' They used nursing infants for dog food." 3 The Spaniards eventually went on to conquer Mexico and the southern U.S. The English, on the other hand, had no use for the native peoples. They saw them as devil worshippers, savages who were beyond salvation by the church, and exterminating them increasingly became accepted policy." 5 David E. Stannard wrote: "Hundreds of Indians were killed in skirmish after skirmish. Other hundreds were killed in successful plots of mass poisoning. They were hunted down by dogs, 'blood-Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives [mastiffs] to seize them.' Their canoes and fishing weirs were smashed, their villages and agricultural fields burned to the ground. Indian peace offers were accepted by the English only until their prisoners were returned; then, having lulled the natives into false security, the colonists returned to the attack. It was the colonists' expressed desire that the Indians be exterminated, rooted 'out from being longer a people upon the face of the earth.' In a single raid the settlers destroyed corn sufficient to feed four thousand people for a year. Starvation and the massacre of non-combatants was becoming the preferred British approach to dealing with the natives." 4 Did missionaries actually participate in the killings? Probably some did, but who knows... but all of these atrocities (and many more) were carried out by Christians often using religious justification. Does this mean christians are worse than other groups. No, not really; all groups have done crap like this throughout history.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4958 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Christian missionaries never mass murdered anyone that I ever heard of. Nor did Jesus. Come Judgement Day, who will decide who goes to Heaven and Who goes to Hell? Jesus also killed every living thing on the planet except for 8 people on an ark and some animals. Jesus also murdered innocent Egyptian children after He had made sure that pharaoh was incapable of agreeing to let the Israelites leave Egypt. Also, in one of the most hilarious verses in the Bible, Jesus ordered the murder of 185 000 Assyrians. 2 Kings 19:35 And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses. I still chuckle at people wakening up in the morning and finding themselves dead But Jesus (God) was a bloodthirtsy barbarian. Brian.
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simple  Inactive Member |
So what? Missionaries never wiped them out any more than they nuked Hiroshima.
Edited by whisper, : No reason given.
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simple  Inactive Member |
quote:Calling the killers Christians is as easy as saying that Christians are on a crusade now to wipe out muslims. That is not true. Certainly not missionaries. The bad guys were not the missionaries or genuine Christians. Whether you like to call them Christians or not.
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