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Author Topic:   Open Question For Jerry Falwell (and those who agree with him)
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 121 of 180 (313430)
05-19-2006 4:08 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by simple
05-15-2006 11:10 PM


Re: Right on, Whisper
And it's not as if the natives didn't do their share of the murdering too. Oh but I forget. PC says that was the white man's fault too. And not just the white man, it's the Christians who were the really evil ones. Sigh.
Amazing how you are allowed to spit out silly false allegations here.
It IS amazing, isn't it? It's pretty much representative of the place though, as you will find if you stick around.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by simple, posted 05-15-2006 11:10 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by jar, posted 05-19-2006 5:00 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 123 by simple, posted 05-26-2006 12:23 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 122 of 180 (313434)
05-19-2006 5:00 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Faith
05-19-2006 4:08 AM


More wilfull ignorance.
And it's not as if the natives didn't do their share of the murdering too. Oh but I forget. PC says that was the white man's fault too. And not just the white man, it's the Christians who were the really evil ones. Sigh.
Not just wilfull ignorance but grade school playground justification. Are you saying that the mass murder, genocide and cultural destruction done by Christians and Christian Missionaries is justified becaues "they did it too?"
In addition, you are one of the main proponents claiming that all the good we see is the result of some "Western Christian Society" and the US was formed as a "Christian Nation." Well if that is the case then it was also that Western Christian Society that was the inspiration for Stalin's Gulags and Hitlers Death Camps. The example we set in how we treated the Native Americans stands even today as the most efficient and complete genocide of a peoples the world has ever witnessed. That same Western Christian Society totally destroyed the peoples, cultures and religions of the Americas and is continuing its acts of destruction even today.
One cannot claim the good without acknowledging the bad. We need to realize that while Christianity may do good, it has and is doing much that is evil. Even today, in the mainly Christian push to deprive people of their civil rights and liberties, Christianity is doing very great evil.
It's time that Christians began to try to act Christlike.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 05-19-2006 4:08 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by simple, posted 05-26-2006 12:25 AM jar has not replied
 Message 130 by simple, posted 05-26-2006 9:59 PM jar has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 180 (315219)
05-26-2006 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Faith
05-19-2006 4:08 AM


Re: Right on, Whisper
quote:
It IS amazing, isn't it? It's pretty much representative of the place though, as you will find if you stick around.
People do what they can get away with. What they get away with tells us much about the place they get away with it in, true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 05-19-2006 4:08 AM Faith has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 124 of 180 (315220)
05-26-2006 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by jar
05-19-2006 5:00 AM


Re: More wilfull ignorance.
quote:
Are you saying that the mass murder, genocide and cultural destruction done by Christians and Christian Missionaries is justified becaues "they did it too?"
Christian missionaries never mass murdered anyone that I ever heard of. Nor did Jesus. What kind of nonsense are you spouting?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by jar, posted 05-19-2006 5:00 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-26-2006 12:57 AM simple has replied
 Message 133 by Brian, posted 05-27-2006 8:03 AM simple has replied

  
SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5833 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 125 of 180 (315225)
05-26-2006 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by simple
05-26-2006 12:25 AM


Re: More wilfull ignorance.
Christian missionaries never mass murdered anyone that I ever heard of. Nor did Jesus. What kind of nonsense are you spouting?
You aren't too familiar with the history of the Americas are you?
I recommend you study the history of what happened in north and south america from 1500-1800. In 200 years 95% of all people who had been leaving in north america were dead. Now, was this all christian missionaries? Of course not... but it was done by christians for the most part; often in the name of the church (particulary in spain's case).
I am going to stop assuming that US history is required in high school.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by simple, posted 05-26-2006 12:25 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-26-2006 1:14 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied
 Message 128 by Buzsaw, posted 05-26-2006 8:19 PM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied
 Message 129 by simple, posted 05-26-2006 9:18 PM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 126 of 180 (315227)
05-26-2006 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
05-26-2006 12:57 AM


Re: More wilfull ignorance.
I recommend you study the history of what happened in north and south america from 1500-1800. In 200 years 95% of all people who had been leaving in north america were dead. Now, was this all christian missionaries? Of course not... but it was done by christians for the most part; often in the name of the church (particulary in spain's case).
The thing is, people and their pomp have been distorting Jesus from the beginning. How anyone arrived at the conclusions that the Crusades or the Catholic Conquistadors were justified is beyond me. They did what they did and I'm certain that God is not silent on the issue. If we cannot truly repent then we cannot truly be granted amnesty under His grace. This is why Jesus stated that many will call Him by His name, but they will not be saved, because as He says, "I never knew you." People fall into the religious pit all the time, and good Christians get lumped in with the bad yeast. Its religiosity that masquerades as righteousness, and unfortunately, many fall into it.
If ever I was going to give you good advice and to have you reject and forsake anything else that I say, take this one thing onboard. We don't judge Christ by Christians, judge Christians by Christ, as even the very name means 'Christ-like.'. Anytime a self-proclaimed Christian commits atrocities, such as what you described, never knew God. Jesus also warns that people will come in His name with the appearance of a sheep, but inwardly, they are ferocious wolves. There are only three types of people in this world: Sheeps, goats, and wolves, and by their fruits, you will recognize them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-26-2006 12:57 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-26-2006 1:21 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5833 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 127 of 180 (315228)
05-26-2006 1:21 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Hyroglyphx
05-26-2006 1:14 AM


Re: More wilfull ignorance.
If ever I was going to give you good advice and to have you reject and forsake anything else that I say, take this one thing onboard. We don't judge Christ by Christians, judge Christians by Christ, as even the very name means 'Christ-like.'. Anytime a self-proclaimed Christian commits atrocities, such as what you described, never knew God. Jesus also warns that people will come in His name with the appearance of a sheep, but inwardly, they are ferocious wolves. There are only three types of people in this world: Sheeps, goats, and wolves, and by their fruits, you will recognize them.
Ok, well now at least I know how to judge evangelicals (falwell, robertson, dobson, and all their followers), prez bush, the religious right, etc. I'm glad to know that most self proclaimed christians never knew god
I'm glad to know that I can tell who the real christians are by whether they do anything bad or not. In fact, I'm not sure we even have any here at EvC
I so love the "no true christian" defense.
Edited by SuperNintendo Chalmers, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-26-2006 1:14 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 128 of 180 (315495)
05-26-2006 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
05-26-2006 12:57 AM


Re: More wilfull ignorance.
SNC writes:
In 200 years 95% of all people who had been leaving in north america were dead.
A large percentage of any people who "had been leaving" (I assume living) anywhere would be dead in 200 years. What exactly are you trying to say and where are you getting your stats?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-26-2006 12:57 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-27-2006 1:02 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 129 of 180 (315502)
05-26-2006 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
05-26-2006 12:57 AM


Re: More wilfull ignorance.
Nonsense. I never heard of missionaries killing anyone. Who did Livingstone mow down? What villages did he torch? None. How about William Duncan? He killed no one. (Missionary to natives on west coast of North America). Could you list say even 20 missionaries who were crazed mass murderers here as you seem to insinuate!!!? You are busted. -Phoney.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-26-2006 12:57 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-27-2006 1:15 AM simple has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 180 (315507)
05-26-2006 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by jar
05-19-2006 5:00 AM


Re: More wilfull ignorance.
quote:
One cannot claim the good without acknowledging the bad. We need to realize that while Christianity may do good, it has and is doing much that is evil. Even today, in the mainly Christian push to deprive people of their civil rights and liberties, Christianity is doing very great evil.
Christianity is believing in Jesus, and trying to follow Him. No bad in there at all. It is the killers and such that claim Jesus wants then tioo do it that smell up the joint. That is the bad, not any real belief in the Prince of Peace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by jar, posted 05-19-2006 5:00 AM jar has not replied

  
SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5833 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 131 of 180 (315544)
05-27-2006 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by Buzsaw
05-26-2006 8:19 PM


Re: More wilfull ignorance.
Um, 95% of the population was wiped out. In other words only the population of native peoples was reduced to 5% of its former level.
Where am I getting my stats?..... Um, history textbooks.... Most modern textbooks cover this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Buzsaw, posted 05-26-2006 8:19 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by simple, posted 05-28-2006 1:36 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has not replied

  
SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5833 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 132 of 180 (315545)
05-27-2006 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by simple
05-26-2006 9:18 PM


Re: More wilfull ignorance.
Since everyone here seems to be completely ignorant of even basic US history (big surprise, this happens almost every time a topic deals with US history) I guess I'll have to provide yet ANOTHER high school level refresher.
Genocide of Natives in the Western Hemisphere, starting 1492 CE
Some excerpts:
"By then [1891] the native population had been reduced to 2.5% of its original numbers and 97.5% of the aboriginal land base had been expropriated....Hundreds upon hundreds of native tribes with unique languages, learning, customs, and cultures had simply been erased from the face of the earth, most often without even the pretense of justice or law." Peter Montague
Later European Christian invaders systematically murdered additional Aboriginal people, from the Canadian Arctic to South America. They used warfare, death marches, forced relocation to barren lands, destruction of their main food supply -- the Buffalo -- and poisoning. Oppression continued into the 20th century, through actions by governments and religious organizations which systematically destroyed Native culture and religious heritage. One present-day byproduct of this oppression is suicide. Today, Canadian Natives have the highest suicide rate of any identifiable population group in the world.
Columbus described the Arawaks -- the Native people in the West Indies -- as timid, artless, free, and generous. He rewarded them with death and slavery. For his second voyage to the Americas, "Columbus took the title 'Admiral of the Ocean Sea' and proceeded to unleash a reign of terror unlike anything seen before or since. When he was finished, eight million Arawaks -- virtually the entire native population of Hispaniola -- had been exterminated by torture, murder, forced labor, starvation, disease and despair." 1 A Spanish missionary, Bartolome de las Casas, described eye-witness accounts of mass murder, torture and rape. 2 Author Barry Lopez, summarizing Las Casas' report wrote: "One day, in front of Las Casas, the Spanish dismembered, beheaded, or raped 3000 people. 'Such inhumanities and barbarisms were committed in my sight,' he says, 'as no age can parallel....' The Spanish cut off the legs of children who ran from them. They poured people full of boiling soap. They made bets as to who, with one sweep of his sword, could cut a person in half. They loosed dogs that 'devoured an Indian like a hog, at first sight, in less than a moment.' They used nursing infants for dog food." 3 The Spaniards eventually went on to conquer Mexico and the southern U.S.
The English, on the other hand, had no use for the native peoples. They saw them as devil worshippers, savages who were beyond salvation by the church, and exterminating them increasingly became accepted policy." 5 David E. Stannard wrote: "Hundreds of Indians were killed in skirmish after skirmish. Other hundreds were killed in successful plots of mass poisoning. They were hunted down by dogs, 'blood-Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives [mastiffs] to seize them.' Their canoes and fishing weirs were smashed, their villages and agricultural fields burned to the ground. Indian peace offers were accepted by the English only until their prisoners were returned; then, having lulled the natives into false security, the colonists returned to the attack. It was the colonists' expressed desire that the Indians be exterminated, rooted 'out from being longer a people upon the face of the earth.' In a single raid the settlers destroyed corn sufficient to feed four thousand people for a year. Starvation and the massacre of non-combatants was becoming the preferred British approach to dealing with the natives." 4
Did missionaries actually participate in the killings? Probably some did, but who knows... but all of these atrocities (and many more) were carried out by Christians often using religious justification.
Does this mean christians are worse than other groups. No, not really; all groups have done crap like this throughout history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by simple, posted 05-26-2006 9:18 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by simple, posted 05-28-2006 1:44 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4958 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 133 of 180 (315565)
05-27-2006 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by simple
05-26-2006 12:25 AM


Jesus the Destroyer
Christian missionaries never mass murdered anyone that I ever heard of. Nor did Jesus.
Come Judgement Day, who will decide who goes to Heaven and Who goes to Hell?
Jesus also killed every living thing on the planet except for 8 people on an ark and some animals.
Jesus also murdered innocent Egyptian children after He had made sure that pharaoh was incapable of agreeing to let the Israelites leave Egypt.
Also, in one of the most hilarious verses in the Bible, Jesus ordered the murder of 185 000 Assyrians.
2 Kings 19:35
And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
I still chuckle at people wakening up in the morning and finding themselves dead
But Jesus (God) was a bloodthirtsy barbarian.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by simple, posted 05-26-2006 12:25 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by simple, posted 05-28-2006 1:52 AM Brian has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 134 of 180 (315712)
05-28-2006 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
05-27-2006 1:02 AM


Re: More wilfull ignorance.
So what? Missionaries never wiped them out any more than they nuked Hiroshima.
Edited by whisper, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-27-2006 1:02 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 135 of 180 (315713)
05-28-2006 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
05-27-2006 1:15 AM


Re: More wilfull ignorance.
quote:
Did missionaries actually participate in the killings? Probably some did, but who knows... but all of these atrocities (and many more) were carried out by Christians often using religious justification.
Does this mean christians are worse than other groups. No, not really; all groups have done crap like this throughout history.
Calling the killers Christians is as easy as saying that Christians are on a crusade now to wipe out muslims. That is not true. Certainly not missionaries. The bad guys were not the missionaries or genuine Christians. Whether you like to call them Christians or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 05-27-2006 1:15 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by nator, posted 05-29-2006 7:37 AM simple has replied
 Message 143 by arachnophilia, posted 05-29-2006 7:50 AM simple has replied

  
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