As far as your claim of Jesus being Good and Wise, I think you'll find that is just a concession from non-Christians based on the reasonably noble words purportedly attributed to Jesus, and is more polite than merely claiming he was a well meaning nutcase, if he existed at all.
If Jesus did legitimately rise from brain death, then that is an example of a supernatural event, and all would pay heed. But our evidence of this event (and indeed anything about Jesus's life and existence) is purely derived from hearsay and anecdotal evidence of non eye-witness accounts given in the Bible, and dodgy forged writings of Josephus (as touched up by Eusebius) and a couple of other even less credible sources.
The myths surrounding Jesus's life were heavily borrowed existing pagan religions, including virgin birth, miracles, betrayal and crucifixion.
I cannot even comprehend what is gained from arguing that the apostles died for their beliefs. Even if this is true (and the accounts are purely sourced from Christian tradition and vary widely) (see Who wrote the New Testament? Making of the Christina Myth Burton Mack 1989), as someone stated above, merely dying for one's beliefs proves absolute nothing. People are dying for their very varied beliefs today and have been dying for them all of human history. This can't possibly make them all true.
Even without providing evidence of your claims, Willowtree, your checkmate evidence is just piffle. Larry Thomas is a twit, if your little anecdote is true at all.
But nevertheless how about complying with the above requests and supply us with one primary and contemporary source which details the death of any of the apostles.
Willow writes
Can anyone produce one single shred of evidence of any kind that indicates the apostles/disciples did not die horribly for the witness of Jesus ?
I can actually find precious little about the demise of these "most famous men" outside of Christian apologetics and traditions, but someone above has helped you out in the thread above. In 70 CE, when Mark was writing his Gospel, Christians were suffering an intense persecution because Nero was scapegoating them for the Roman fire. These people were killed irregardless of whether they renegged their beliefs or not. At this time they could have screamed that Ceaser was God all they wanted and it would not have made any difference. The sincereity of their convictions were not an issue.
I'd start being a little bit more suspicious about the teachings of a reputedly intelligent man who using the Christian faith to line his personal coffers.
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