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Author Topic:   What you want to know about Christ.
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 69 of 300 (428716)
10-17-2007 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Fosdick
10-17-2007 11:01 AM


Re: Jesus's circumcision
Hoot mon writes:
I would like to know if Jesus was genetically diploid or haploid.
Ron Wyatt supposedly found a sample of Jesus' blood. You might be interested in this thread.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Fosdick, posted 10-17-2007 11:01 AM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Fosdick, posted 10-17-2007 4:40 PM ringo has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 95 of 300 (428851)
10-17-2007 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by itrownot
10-17-2007 6:06 PM


itrownot writes:
This may seem to you an insignificant issue, but to me it is actually more "unscriptural" than not, since "born-agains" ARE instructed in 1st Corinthians (and, admittedly, I'm paraphrasing somewhat) not to be "of Paul", "of Apollos", "of Cephas", and, most strikingly, it seems, "of Christ."
quote:
1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
I don't see it saying we shouldn't be "of Christ".

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by itrownot, posted 10-17-2007 6:06 PM itrownot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by itrownot, posted 10-17-2007 10:17 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 97 of 300 (428870)
10-17-2007 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by itrownot
10-17-2007 10:17 PM


itrownot writes:
Nowhere within the passage (1Cor, chapter 1)does he say, "Therefore let everyone declare himself to be "of Christ" for the sake of unity, or whatever; on the contrary, he simply focuses on the power of the preaching of the cross.
You quoted it yourself: "He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.", not "glory in the cross."
Paul was telling the Corinthians (and by extension, us) not to follow Paul or Apollos or Cephas, but to follow Christ. Hence, we should not call ourselves Paulines, Apollosines, Cephasites or Crucians - but Christians.
In other words, he concentrates on "what we should do" and turns away from "who we are" as the operative question of the hour.
I agree with that.
... "what they ought to be be doing," namely, "preaching Christ and him crucified."
What they ought to be doing is doing, not preaching.
But this topic was intended for gen to enlighten us, not for me to enlighten you.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by itrownot, posted 10-17-2007 10:17 PM itrownot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by itrownot, posted 10-17-2007 11:44 PM ringo has replied
 Message 99 by itrownot, posted 10-17-2007 11:59 PM ringo has not replied
 Message 168 by gen, posted 10-24-2007 7:27 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 100 of 300 (428883)
10-18-2007 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by itrownot
10-17-2007 11:44 PM


itrownot writes:
Therefore, my point remains that it is not "what" one ought to call himself/herself, but rather that one ought to shun the label itself in prefernce to getting about the actual business of doing....
There's a difference between right labels and wrong labels. Paul was pointing out that wrong labels like "Pauline", "Apollosine" and "Cephasite" indicate wrong thinking.
There's also a difference between not labelling oneself and "shunning the label". I only pointed out that you are embellishing the text.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by itrownot, posted 10-17-2007 11:44 PM itrownot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by itrownot, posted 10-18-2007 1:01 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 103 of 300 (428893)
10-18-2007 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by itrownot
10-18-2007 1:01 AM


itrownot writes:
Those "of Christ" simply are not given any preferential treatment....
They certainly are.
quote:
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
Christ was crucified for you and ye are bapized in the name of Christ. The name of Christ most definitely is singled out from the list.
... when one purports to be "of Christ," this is at best a potentially hazardous presumption, and therefore of dubious merit.
I agree, but "potentially hazardous" and "of dubious merit" are not the same as shunning the label. It's good to be humble but going too far in the shunning direction can amount to denying Christ.
Furthermore, Paul makes no ensuing effort to amend the text to be more amiable toward those claiming to be "of Christ."
Nor does he need to. He is only eliminating those we should not follow.
Moreover, I myself find nothing as yet, biblically speaking, that enjoins anyone to take on the name "Christian."
Neither do I. I'm not saying we should take the name "Christian". (If you read a few thousand of my posts, you'll find that I don't.) I'm saying that we shouldn't shun it either, like Peter did.
Finally, IMO, you are merely splitting hairs between "shunning a label" and "not taking on a label." Personally I fail to see the need for such a minor distinction to be drawn....
Get used to it.
This isn't choir practise. Don't expect anything you say here to go unexamined.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by itrownot, posted 10-18-2007 1:01 AM itrownot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by itrownot, posted 10-18-2007 1:58 AM ringo has replied
 Message 105 by itrownot, posted 10-18-2007 2:01 AM ringo has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 106 of 300 (428900)
10-18-2007 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by itrownot
10-18-2007 1:58 AM


itrownot writes:
Sure, you may decide to declare victory after a fashion, but so what?
I haven't declared any victory. I've shown where (I think) you're wrong. Anybody reading this can make up their own minds whose point is stronger - which is why it's important to lay it out very precisely for them. If you don't want to communicate with your audience, you're just wearing out your keyboard for nothing.
I'm interested in more quality of conversation thatn that, frankly, and you might well get used to that from me as well, I suppose.
You're welcome to show some quality on your end.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by itrownot, posted 10-18-2007 1:58 AM itrownot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by itrownot, posted 10-18-2007 3:19 AM ringo has not replied
 Message 108 by itrownot, posted 10-18-2007 4:20 AM ringo has not replied
 Message 120 by itrownot, posted 10-18-2007 9:57 AM ringo has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 172 of 300 (430283)
10-24-2007 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by gen
10-24-2007 7:27 AM


gen writes:
Actually, if you are willing to answer some of the questions in a loving manner according to the Bible....
You probably wouldn't like most of my answers.
For example:
Are you a Christian/born again/follower of Jesus yourself?
I don't like the term "born again", because most professing Christians have no clue what it means. And I'm not much of a follower. I strain at the leash.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by gen, posted 10-24-2007 7:27 AM gen has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 220 of 300 (431360)
10-30-2007 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by iano
10-30-2007 5:07 PM


Re: I'll try you
iano writes:
Consider the gospel to be a tool. I bring it to the site - the Holy Spirit works it.
So you're the Holy Spirit's caddy?
Wouldn't it make more sense for His protege to demonstrate the product?

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by iano, posted 10-30-2007 5:07 PM iano has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 249 of 300 (431645)
11-01-2007 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by iano
11-01-2007 10:26 AM


iano writes:
... people don't "interpret" their reality - they just assume their reality is the case.
That's not true, of course. People compare their "reality" with other people's personal perceptions to make a composite "collective reality".
Rational thinking depends on being able to show reasons for your conclusion. Showing reason depends on being able to communicate your perceptions to others.
don't err in supposing that empiricism verifies reality.
Empiricism doesn't "verify reality". It fine-tunes our perception of reality.
What people are asking you, I think, is why you trust your own perception of reality over the collective perception of everybody else. When one person has a "reality" that differs substantially from the collective perception, we call that mental illness. I don't think you've shown how your perception of reality (with respect to "spritual" experiences) differs from mental illness.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by iano, posted 11-01-2007 10:26 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by iano, posted 11-01-2007 2:35 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 251 of 300 (431691)
11-01-2007 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by iano
11-01-2007 2:35 PM


iano writes:
Presumably these people of yours first assume their reality to be the case. They would need to do that in order to be sure that the other people they are comparing themselves with actually exist.
Yes. We, as a society, do assume (if you want to call it an assumption) that people exist. We also assume that experiences can be communicated between people by way of evidence. We also assume that the experiences are "less real" if they can not be verified by evidence.
quote:
Empiricism doesn't "verify reality". It fine-tunes our perception of reality.
Fine so long as fine-tuning is not necessarily taken as moving our perceptions any closer to the actual reality.
Empiricism doesn't "move our perceptions". It takes our conclusions closer to the best approximation of "actual reality" that we can ever know.
Given the amount of people on the world who have one or other spiritual outlook (and thus perception of reality) I wonder who forms your "collective perceptionists".
That smells like a false dichotomy - spiritual outlook or no spiritual outlook. The fact is that people with almost any spiritual outlook can subscribe to and contribute to the collective knowledge of reality.
It isn't spiritual versus non-spiritual. It's rational versus irrational.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by iano, posted 11-01-2007 2:35 PM iano has not replied

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