Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 80 (8972 total)
131 online now:
(131 visitors)
Newest Member: Howyoudo
Post Volume: Total: 875,494 Year: 7,242/23,288 Month: 1,148/1,214 Week: 160/303 Day: 0/36 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Because The Bible Tells Me So
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 111 (388616)
03-06-2007 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by AnswersInGenitals
03-06-2007 5:15 PM


Re: Confused in California.
I don't think you can say that foolishness is necessarily false.

Let me try an analogy.

Your whole post conveyed a message that I'm assuming is the truth for this analogy. If I read it and offered my wisdom that "Your post was typed in English." We could consider that foolishness (when compared to the wisdom provided by the actual points it was making) but that doesn't make it false (which it wasn't).

So, the wisdom we have (which can be truthful) is negligible (foolishness) to the wisdom of god not that our wisdom is false.

Does that make sense?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 03-06-2007 5:15 PM AnswersInGenitals has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 03-06-2007 5:57 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 111 (388697)
03-07-2007 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by AnswersInGenitals
03-06-2007 5:57 PM


Re: Confused in California.
Whether it makes sense is not relevant. What is relevant is what was intended in the biblical passage.

Yup.

I don't think that even the original passage equates foolishness with falsehood, although, admittedly, I haven't read the original.

I think most believe that in this instance foolishness means false.

What people believe is as irrelevant as if it makes sense. Still, I don't think your correct that MOST believe that foolishness is necessarily falsehood.

I agree that in other contexts it can have other meanings.

Why are you so stuck on your idea that foolishness must equal false? Its like you're TRYING to make the passage more confusing than it actually is.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 03-06-2007 5:57 PM AnswersInGenitals has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 03-08-2007 3:05 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 111 (388886)
03-08-2007 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by AnswersInGenitals
03-08-2007 3:05 PM


Re: Confused in California (and probably a little foolish).
If someone were to start a new topic thread with an opening post that began: "The theory of evolution is total foolishness....",

Allow me to strike the word "total" from the situation. I think it only adds confusion.

would you conclude that this person believes the ToE to be valid, just limited to some extent in its compass?

Actually, yes I would. I would expect that the person did not think that the theory was false, but that it did not descibe reality in its totality. That the theory missed something extra but was accurate within itself.

For example, the poster might think that God had a hand in evolution and that the ToE was accurately descibing how God did it. And since the ToE leaves god out of it, then that person would be calling it foolish in that it totally missed God entirely.

I would conclude that he is arguing that the theory is false.

Then you would be wrong :D


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 03-08-2007 3:05 PM AnswersInGenitals has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by ringo, posted 03-08-2007 3:37 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 111 (388889)
03-08-2007 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by ringo
03-08-2007 3:37 PM


Re: Confused in California (and probably a little foolish).
I think you're being disingenuous. Around here, we see people saying that "ToE is foolishness" all the time - and they nearly always mean it's false.

Well nonetheless, I would still contend that they are using the word improperly.


Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence.
Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith.
Science has failed our world.
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
-System of a Down, "Science"

He who makes a beast out of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man.
-Avenged Sevenfold, "Bat Country"


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by ringo, posted 03-08-2007 3:37 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by ringo, posted 03-08-2007 4:04 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 111 (388898)
03-08-2007 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by ringo
03-08-2007 4:04 PM


Re: Confused in California (and probably a little foolish).
Your contention is noted. However, most of us are using the English language as is, straight out of the box - not your peculiar personal dialect.

Aren't we talking typing about the Bible though?

In plain English, the word "foolishness" does not have positive connotations.

I don't think it has positive connotations, I just think that it does NOT mean "false".

I contend that "foolish" means foolish - not incomplete.

What about in the quote in question? Give us your interpretation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by ringo, posted 03-08-2007 4:04 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by ringo, posted 03-08-2007 4:28 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 111 (388905)
03-08-2007 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by ringo
03-08-2007 4:28 PM


Re: Confused in California (and probably a little foolish).
Which is why I showed that the Greek word means "foolishness" too.

IMO, WRT the quote, I think foolishness means negligible.

It means "beyond false", "false to the point of being stupid".

But still false...I think that's wrong.

As I said early in the thread

:o oh, sorry...

I think the phrase is meaningless unless we know exactly what God's wisdom is.

What if we set God's wisdom as omniscience? Then what do you think it means? What about for something very near but not quite omniscience (you know what I mean?)?

If the magnitude of the value of God's wisdom is infinite, then whatever value we are at is negligible (foolishness) compared to God's but that doesn't mean that we are wrong (false) in our wisdom.

Even if we don't set it at infinite, whatever value we assume god has, it is probably high enough to render ours as negligible. Which is what I think the point of the quote is. I don't think it means that our wisdom is false, do you? (realizing you think its meaningless).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by ringo, posted 03-08-2007 4:28 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 03-08-2007 4:53 PM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 12-03-2017 12:10 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 111 (388910)
03-08-2007 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by ringo
03-08-2007 4:53 PM


Re: Confused in California (and probably a little foolish).
If human wisdom is all we have, how can it be negligible?

When compared to the magnitude of god's, presumed, wisdom.

The "God's wisdom" that we are talking about is strictly hypothetical unless it becomes human wisdom.

/nod

If anything, "God's wisdom" is negligible because we don't know what it is.

Yeah...in practicality :rolleyes:

lol


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 03-08-2007 4:53 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by ringo, posted 03-08-2007 5:15 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 111 (388961)
03-09-2007 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by ringo
03-08-2007 5:15 PM


Re: Confused in California (and probably a little foolish).
"Presumed" wisdom is irrelevant, since it is human wisdom doing the presuming.

For all we know, God might be an idiot savant who can create wonderful universes but can't tie His own shoes.

Well, if we're talking about a quote from the Bible, then we have an idea about which god we're talking about and what his qualifties can be assumed to be.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by ringo, posted 03-08-2007 5:15 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by ringo, posted 03-09-2007 1:08 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 111 (389093)
03-10-2007 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by ringo
03-09-2007 1:08 PM


Re: Confused in California (and probably a little foolish).
You can "pre"sume or "as"sume anything you want, but it's still a human presumption or a human assumption. It's human wisdom about what may or may not be God's wisdom.

So then the quote becomes:

quote:
The wisdom of the world is foolishness to a human wisdom about what may or may not be God's wisdom.

I can imagine god's wisdom being so great that the wisdom of the world is negligible compared to it. I think describing the wisdom of the world as foolishness could mean that. I don't think it has to mean that our wisdom is false.

There can not be any meaningful comparison between our wisdom and God's wisdom unless we know what God's wisdom is. And how can we know what God's wisdom is if our wisdom is so stunted?

Some guy had a belief about god's wisdom and said that our's is foolishness compared do god's. I don't think he was saying that all our wisdom is false. I think he's saying that ours is minuscule.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by ringo, posted 03-09-2007 1:08 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by ringo, posted 03-10-2007 4:26 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 111 (389234)
03-11-2007 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by ringo
03-10-2007 4:26 PM


Re: Confused in California (and probably a little foolish).
In this context, what's the difference between false and miniscule?

Because we are not wrong. We just don't know it all.

To say that the quote means that we are wrong makes the quote false, IMHO. To say that the quote only means that there is much-much more to learn, means that the quote is true, presumably.

For practical purposes, it's the really, really, really, really big God-wisdom that's irrelevant.

To the athiest, yes. To the theist, no.

The "true" wisdom is the wisdom that works.

Word.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by ringo, posted 03-10-2007 4:26 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by ringo, posted 03-12-2007 12:17 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 111 (389254)
03-12-2007 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by ringo
03-12-2007 12:17 AM


Re: Confused in California (and probably a little foolish).
That makes no sense. If we don't know it all, how can we know we're not wrong?

We can't. Its just a quote, Ringo. You don't have to wholly agree with it to say that foolishness does not equal falsehood.

Well, I showed that the Greek word translated "foolishness" means "silly", "absurd", "dull", "stupid". Your opinion notwithstanding, there can't be much doubt that that implies "wrong".

I don't find any of those synonyms to be equal to "false" by necessity, either.

Theist or atheist makes no difference. Unless a theist knows what God knows, he is in the same boat with the atheist. He has only his own wisdom.

But the quote is not about what the author knows, its just a belief of his. It is not some profound fact... just a musing, IMHO.

It is based on his belief about what he thinks god knows, not some fact about what god must know.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by ringo, posted 03-12-2007 12:17 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by ringo, posted 03-12-2007 1:12 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020