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Author | Topic: Why is Faith a Virtue? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
iano writes: The primary reason why someone believes is because God brings them to the point of being able to. So you believe in God because you have evidence. But to get the evidence you have to believe in God!! Sounds like a scam to me. Ever read "Kissing Hank's Ass"? http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.php
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
phat writes: .....does not negate the object of our faith. I have no desire to negate your (or anyone else's) faith. I object only when the religious cannot accept that "faith" is exactly what it is. I wouldn't put too much stock in acronyms, by the way. A quick google search came up with: FoolishAnd Ignorant Theological Hogwash
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
iano writes: Empiricism, Empiricism. All is empiricism. Indeed it is.
iano writes: Can you not tell when someone is telling the truth or lying Schraf? And how is that done? Aside from demanding evidence, one observes the behavior, facial expressions and voice tones of whomever is speaking. One might also consider that person's track record of lying. Empricism. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
iano writes: Could you form the sense that they were not lying in what they wrote? Of course, but the letters themselves wouldn't amount to much more than circumstantial evidence. I'd still have a chance of totally misinterpreting what I was reading.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
Chief writes: For those who believe, please, take one second and imagine that what you believe is false. At this request many believers here have been known either to run off or to change the subject.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
robin writes: Suppose we believe in a certain moral code. Should we "take one second and imagine that what we believe is false"? This is what anthropologists and psychologists do.
robin writes: Suppose one of the doctrines of our code is the idea that racism is evil. Should we take one second and imagine that what we believe is false? Again, this is what anthropologists and psychologists do. Also historians, biographers, writers etc.. The aim of the exercise is comprehension, not judgement. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
robin writes: They think to themselves, "Maybe racism is not evil after all. Maybe it's good"? No, you're equating empathy with sympathy.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
faith writes: And if innocent until motive for guilt is established then happen it did. Does not follow. It could still be a lie!
iano writes: "They do and I told you they did - you just didn't believe that they did" "...so I'm going to send you to hell!" What a pathetic creature this God of yours is.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
iano writes: you wouldn't argue that the ability to enjoy the warmth of the sun on your skin was enabled by your own actions.. No, because it's caused my skin receptors responding to heat radiation from the sun.
iano writes: Perhaps you are taking all these nice things as your rights. Perhaps I have no desire to subject myself to the judgement of a petty, vindictive tyrant-god who demands unquestioning obediance whilst providing plenty of ways for humans to "delude" themselves into rejecting him. Or, perhaps I have no desire to live my life like a child in fear of punishment. Sorry Ian, your beliefs are your own, but your idea of God leaves me utterly cold.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
iano writes: Like simply looking at the world and saying to yourself "It's all a result of chance and accident". Does it not ring a little hollow? No. I like the idea that I'm an insignificant speck of life formed from heavy elements that were themselves synthesized in a Sun that lived and died billions of years ago. To me that is truly fascinating. In the words of the great philospher Eric Idle, "You came into the world with nothing, you'll leave with nothing, what have you lost? Nothing! Life is short. Why waste it worrying about what some God thinks?
iano writes: If what I say is true then you will accept, when you stand before him, that it was your choice in the end. You will have chosen for Hell. If I found myself at God's feet I would indeed tell him why I didn't believe. I would also ask him lots of questions about his godly powers and infinite knowledge. I most certainly would NOT beg his forgiveness. If he still chose to punish me, then so be it. Better to be in the jail of a tyrant than to sit at his right hand. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
iano writes: I asked you if it rung hollow. Like, does it fit? Fits just fine for me! Doesn't ring hollow at all. I'm comfortable with my own mortality. Dreaming up an afterlife for which we have no evidence and no consistent model seems truly hollow to me. Assuming that ONE concept of an afterlife is more valid than all others also seems more than a little self-serving.
iano writes: and He replied "had I done so that you would have HAD to believe (making you an automaton)" what would your repost be? Then why expect worship? Why should I "believe" in you? Is your ego SO fragile? ..and why did you limit your intervention to a particular corner of the planet Earth 2000 years ago? How is "sacrificing" an ever-living avatar of yourself a true sacrifice? Do lifeforms on other planets (if they exist) worship you? Did you send a messiah to those people too? .......is warp-drive possible? What happens when a cat with a piece of buttered bread tied its back falls?
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
iano writes: I mean 'it all' 'the whole show' 'the way it is'. The world, your life, your place in it. Accident and chance provides sufficient for you? Yup.
iano writes: Where would you look for evidence? And if you don't know where you would look, is it not a little premature to suppose as you do? I simply don't look for evidence. I'm simply not interested in "finding" God. Even if God DOES exist, I'm not interested in living my life for him.
iano (God's words) writes: "I don't expect it, I deserve it. Look at what I did for you... "You sacrificed an avatar of yourself and brought it back to life 2000 years ago. What DOES that do for me? If you are referring to the entirity of creation, then well done, but again, why do you need me worship you? Isn't my respect enough?"
iano (God's words) writes: Those who didn't reject me I brought to me and they realise what it is I did for them and can't help but worship me. "Well I'm not interested."
iano (God's words) writes: ..they choose to [worship] - I do not demand it. "How very convenient... Still not interested. What happens now?"
iano writes: Common sense says that a son takes his fathers guidance. A good father doesn't seek to control his son with veiled threats. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
Ian, any response to message 216?
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
iano writes: You don't know where life came from. As far a science can tell life arises from nature, from the universe around us. Of course, I don't pretend to have all the answers. No one does. There are many more things for humanity yet to discover in this life.
iano writes: You need to be cleansed of that sinful tendency that Adam infected you with. "I'd rather partake of life in all its complexity than live the life of a naive, cosseted child."
iano (as God) writes: "I'll shower you with so much love your feet won't touch the ground." "Saw something like that in a porn film once. No thanks."
iano (as God) writes: "You hate me at the moment..." "Not at all. I've never met you before! I just don't see why I should concern myself with your opinion. Nor do I see why you should be concerned about me." --------------- Thing is Iano, I as an agnostic I really don't waste my time getting worked up about the possibility of God existing. What puzzles me most is why God wastes his time "talking" to us through religion? Why does God expect our reverence? Why did Adam have to "fall"? Why must there be a judgement? Religion has almost nothing to do with God and everything to do with humans seeking to control one another whilst they live. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 5018 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
Comes from an article by Ron Suskind in the NYT Magazine in 2004.
Reality-based community - Wikipedia Make of it what you will... Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
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