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Author Topic:   Faith and belief - The Almighty God revealed through his grandness
Cedre
Member
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 1 of 224 (497394)
02-04-2009 3:19 AM


In this thread my only hope and objective is to reveal the love of God through his grand ways. By the time this thread has lived up to its goal all will be in awe of his grandeur and nobility but most importantly his LOVE for humanity. Yet be warned this is not inherently meant to be a scientific debate though some elements of science may crop up in the discussions from time to time, but of course with the sole purpose of illuminating God's grandness. This is chiefly a theological debate but everyone's welcome to participate; be that as it may, not that I discourage opposition viewpoints I will encourage curious folks to spend less time finding fault and more time reading about the greatness of God as it unfolds on their screens and asking questions where they fail to understand or beg to differ. I also call upon fellow believers to aid me in this quest, my goal is to make this as open-ended as can be, so please dont shy away from making known your knowledge of God, God is immense and I could never single-handedly be able to unfold him.

O Lord, our Lord, whose glory is higher than the heavens, how noble is your name in all the earth! When I see your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have put in their places. What is man, that you keep him in mind? the son of man, that you take him into account? (Psalm 8:1,3,4)

Indeed what am I that you bother to care about me, you are so far out of my reach yet just close enough to satisfy my deepest needs. To start this debate I would like to hear some personal viewpoints about God's greatness, please start posting.

The following quote is added by edit by Adminnemooseus:

Cedre, at another topic, writes:

Well it's suprising for you to ask that question, my man, where've you been all this time, don't you get outsite of the house every so often to marvel at the beauty and sheer genius of nature. The hand of God hasn't been more evident in nature since the birth of science that has started unravelling the cell to unearth such involutions as the citric acid cycle, glycolysis and the various transport mechanism involved in generating useful energy, the slitting of the DNA helix ending up in two daughter DNA, transcription, translation I'm out of breath at this point but no doubt the list doesn't take my loss of breath in account it continues on smoothly. The hand of God is evident and logic supports that notion, science may not be able to validate his existence beyond a shadow of or doubt but it sure does a brilliant task at revealing his handywork in nature.


(SOURCE)

Edited by Cedre, : spelling correction

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added quote material and source link.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 02-04-2009 4:35 AM Cedre has responded
 Message 7 by Dr Jack, posted 02-04-2009 6:43 AM Cedre has responded
 Message 8 by Huntard, posted 02-04-2009 7:03 AM Cedre has not yet responded
 Message 22 by Rahvin, posted 02-04-2009 1:43 PM Cedre has not yet responded
 Message 23 by onifre, posted 02-04-2009 5:10 PM Cedre has not yet responded
 Message 170 by Jon, posted 02-09-2009 1:04 AM Cedre has not yet responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3879
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 224 (497407)
02-04-2009 4:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Cedre
02-04-2009 3:19 AM


Show me the "grandness"
In the topic title:

The Almighty God revealed through his grandness

and in the message body:

To start this debate I would like to hear some personal viewpoints about God's greatness, please start posting.

As the topic starter, it's on you to cite some of this "grandness" and "greatness". Or is that Psalms quote supposed to be it?

Adminnemooseus

"He who knows he is incapable of writing a quality opening message shall be the one to critique others who think they can" - The Gospel according to Percy (as inferred by one of his disciples)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 3:19 AM Cedre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 4:50 AM Adminnemooseus has responded

  
Cedre
Member
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 3 of 224 (497409)
02-04-2009 4:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Adminnemooseus
02-04-2009 4:35 AM


Re: Show me the "grandness"
Thanks for being the first person to commentary on my thread. You fail to understand the route I've taken with this thread, this is a strategic move, you'll witness the effect of it in due time, I have it well plotted out. Well do you actually have a viewpoint pertaining to the theme of the thread or are you simply a barrel of criticism.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 02-04-2009 4:35 AM Adminnemooseus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Adminnemooseus, posted 02-04-2009 5:04 AM Cedre has not yet responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3879
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 4 of 224 (497415)
02-04-2009 5:04 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Cedre
02-04-2009 4:50 AM


Re: Show me the "grandness"
Thanks for being the first person to commentary on my thread.

Well, at this point there are only four possible respondents. :)

Well do you actually have a viewpoint pertaining to the theme of the thread...?

My viewpoint is that your titular assertion "The Almighty God revealed through his grandness" has no backing in your message 1 (or message 3). What is this "grandness"?

...or are you simply a barrel of criticism?

At this point in the topic, it's my job, and the job doesn't pay very well.

Adminnemooseus


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 4:50 AM Cedre has not yet responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3879
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 5 of 224 (497431)
02-04-2009 6:04 AM


Material quoted from another topic added by edit to message 1
I've added Cedre material from another topic, to message 1 of this topic. That added material should be enough to launch this topic.

Stand by for promotion to "Faith and Belief".

Adminnemooseus


New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.

Report a problem etc. type topics:
Report Technical Problems Here: No. 1
Report Discussion Problems Here: No. 2
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum

Other useful links:

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Admin writes:

It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.

There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.

Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source


  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3879
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 6 of 224 (497432)
02-04-2009 6:05 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 178 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 7 of 224 (497441)
02-04-2009 6:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Cedre
02-04-2009 3:19 AM


The hand of God hasn't been more evident in nature since the birth of science that has started unravelling the cell to unearth such involutions as the citric acid cycle, glycolysis and the various transport mechanism involved in generating useful energy, the slitting of the DNA helix ending up in two daughter DNA, transcription, translation I'm out of breath at this point but no doubt the list doesn't take my loss of breath in account it continues on smoothly.

And, yet, the people who know the most about these things are the most likely to accredit them to Evolution and not God. Do you ever wonder why that might be?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 3:19 AM Cedre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 7:20 AM Dr Jack has not yet responded

Huntard
Member (Idle past 368 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 8 of 224 (497445)
02-04-2009 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Cedre
02-04-2009 3:19 AM


As I pointed out to you in the other thread, this evidence for god is only apparent if you already believe it is this god that is responsible. If you think it's allah, you'll say the evidence points to allah, if you tihnk it's odin, the evidence points to odin.

How can we determine that it is indeed your god that is responsible for this?


I hunt for the truth
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 3:19 AM Cedre has not yet responded

  
Cedre
Member
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 9 of 224 (497449)
02-04-2009 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Dr Jack
02-04-2009 6:43 AM


Allow me to begin with time. the bible is a prophetic book, Danial, Isaiah, Ezekial, Jeremiah and the like. Under God's inspiration they foretold amazing events of the future, focusing chiefly on the outcome of the Jewish people and the various elements that shaped and affected them. Now i come to my point but first note this piece of scripture "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Gen 1:1) From this it is made known to us that God was present at the beginning he wasn't a result of it, he was ther to oversee it in fact he orchestratedthe whole event. This first act of creation introduced the concept of matter and space with the next act of creation found in, God introduced the concept of time, Gen 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. "

Time is a created concept of God and as such does not bound God like it does men and the whole universe, he operates outside the borders of time and as such can move through the past, present, and future in fact he is present in all three at once, he knows the future from the present nothing whether it be in the future is kept hidden from God's eyes. Therefore it is no wonder that his prophets could foresee for miles on end into the future. God cannot be controlled by something he masterminded. What a far-reaching thought that God is present in all domains of time, it surely makes my hair stand on end.

Edited by Cedre, : correction

Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Cedre
Member
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 10 of 224 (497454)
02-04-2009 7:38 AM


Sometimes people find it thorny to fathom how God could have just existed he must have come from somewhere, well understanding that God is without time helps to resolve this recurring thought. It follows from this this that god was just there, he is timeless, He just was, is, and will be. He told moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. (Exo 3:14)
That is why God the son when confronted by his opposers replied in John 8:58 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
He is all powerful indeed
Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by cavediver, posted 02-04-2009 7:45 AM Cedre has responded

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1716 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 11 of 224 (497456)
02-04-2009 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Cedre
02-04-2009 7:38 AM


Sometimes people find it thorny to fathom how the Universe could just exist - it must have come from somewhere? Well, understanding that the Universe is without time helps to resolve this recurring thought. It follows from this this that the Universe is just here, it is timeless, It just was, is, and will be. It occured to Einstein - the Universe just IS.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 7:38 AM Cedre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 7:56 AM cavediver has responded

Cedre
Member
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 12 of 224 (497458)
02-04-2009 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by cavediver
02-04-2009 7:45 AM


Unlike what you've just said space has time and bodies suspended throughout it travel with time, how else can we explain time on earth itself. Space is also subjected to Entropy, just as everthing on earth is, and antropy can only occur in the presence of time. More to the point every logical person has reasoned that the unviverse has to have had a begining this is where big bang cosmolgy hails from.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by cavediver, posted 02-04-2009 7:45 AM cavediver has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by cavediver, posted 02-04-2009 8:42 AM Cedre has responded
 Message 18 by bluescat48, posted 02-04-2009 10:32 AM Cedre has not yet responded

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1716 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 13 of 224 (497462)
02-04-2009 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Cedre
02-04-2009 7:56 AM


Everything you have just mentioned is part of the Universe, as is time itself. The Universe contains past, present and future. The Big Bang is just one part of the Universe - it may be the beginning of time, but it is not the beginning of the Universe, for it contains time itself. It is far grander than your ideas of a god. And it is real :)

Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 7:56 AM Cedre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 9:05 AM cavediver has responded

Cedre
Member
Posts: 350
From: Russia
Joined: 01-30-2009


Message 14 of 224 (497466)
02-04-2009 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by cavediver
02-04-2009 8:42 AM


I really don't know if I should respond to what you've just said, its not worth debating as far as I'm concerned. But I'll egg you on to put away such infantile reasoning and get serious with life, listen to what your gut is telling you, I'm sure if you only cared to listen closely to it you'd hear it telling you to succumb to God and his way of righteousness. He is a reality, he has proven hismelf over and over by changing people's lives for the better. I have no regrets submitting my life to Christ so far his treated me just well, like royalty, and I'm glad that he loves me regardless of my human imperfections. I think that you should give God a real serious thought. Let me use the following two scenarios to explain why, if I have spent my whole life leading a godly life and die only to realise that there isn't a God, and that after death you just cease to live, I'll have no sorrows because I'm no more. However say you lived your life exclusively of God and die only to confront a God who penalises sinners, you'll have a lot to be sorrowful for. Give this thought your earnest consideration.

Edited by Cedre, : correction

Edited by Cedre, : No reason given.


"How much longer will you enjoy being stupid fools? Won't you ever stop sneering and laughing at knowledge?" - Pro 1:22
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 586 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 15 of 224 (497469)
02-04-2009 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Cedre
02-04-2009 9:05 AM


Let me use this metaphor to explain why, if I have spent my whole life leading a godly life and die only to realise that there isn't a God, and that after death you just cease to live, I'll have no sorrows because I'm no more. However say you lived your life exclusively of God and die only to confront a God who penalises sinners, you'll have a lot to e sorrowful for. Give this thought your earnest consideration.

That's not a metaphor. That's cribbing Pascal's Wager. Not exactly the most sophisticated argument for believing in god. Of course, it doesn't even attempt to support God's existence, and isn't that your aim?

Try again.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Cedre, posted 02-04-2009 9:05 AM Cedre has not yet responded

  
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