Which ten commandments do you follow?

yes i know. i was just being a pain.

History tells all, Early Christians were heavily prosecuted and martrydom, they did not have the same level of protection as the Jews (Judaism). The Christain faith was still young and their followers were considered "Athiests" and were also accused of incest, cannabalism and much more. If you still aren't sure I can give you specific emperors and the forms of punishment they carried to those that didn't worship pagan gods.

asciikerr,Don't bother. Here's a site that puts the wild claims of systematic Christian persecution by the Romans in clearer perspective. Recall that during the reign of Augustus there was unprecedented religious freedom in the occupied lands of the Empire and plenty of budding faiths fought for prominence. Christians, through their own intolerance of other faiths (including the ones from whom they stole ideas, like Mithraism), made plenty of enemies. Nero and (much later) Diocletian stigmatized the Christians as political scapegoats, not because of the Roman fear of the validity of their beliefs.regards,
Esteban Hambre

crashfrog says: The Bible doesn't say "Nobody should worship anybody but God" and "anybody can worship anyone they like."The government can say both "there is no God but God" and "Congress shall not establish a religion." These statements are in no way mutually exclusive. That is what jar has been trying to tell you. The first amendment is to protect people from being forced to worship in a government-mandated religion, like the English government did. It says nothing about what individual people ought to do - it only says what the government ought not to do.

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If you say there no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure?

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The first amendment is to protect people from being forced to worship in a government-mandated religion, like the English government did. It says nothing about what individual people ought to do - it only says what the government ought not to do.

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"There is no god but God" is the establishment, by the government, of a religion. The government already has stated that it shall not infringe on freedom of religion, which includes giving certain religions endorsement through government proclaimation (eg "There is no God but God").

"I am the LORD they God, thou shalt have no other gods before me." That's God's first commandment.Seems pretty clear to me. That's establishing a religion. When the government takes a position about which religion is right, that's establishment. You can't be forced to worship or not worship, of course. No law can stop your mouth or prevent your knees from bending. You can, on the other hand, be punished or marginalized for worshipping as you choose.The First amendment doesn't say "Congress may establish a religion but can't prevent free expression." It says that Congress may not establish a religion, or prevent free expression, period. (Well, not really a period, because there's all those other rights, too.)It's very clear. Government is supposed to stay out of religion. And why wouldn't it? It's representative government, after all. My government should represent me, but it misrepresents me when it says "there is no God but God." The only way for it to represent everybody's religion equally is to represent no one's religion.

MrHambre,I think opening a new thread on Christian Martyrs and all that they've endured (or didn't) under Roman Rule would be educational.What do you think?

Just make sure that you have the straight scoop before you go there because it isn't as big a story as you might think.It's a lot like the myths of what happened during the spread of Islam, far more hype than reality.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

"There is no god but God" is just stating the opinion of the government. The government is not forcing you to do any action as a consequence of that opinion. There is no law telling you that you have to worship that God, or a law that you cannot worship another God.

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If you say there no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure?

Yes, I agree that is clear. However, read the whole sentence I originally posted - you missed the "and" part.

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If you say there no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure?

While I agree that it is a very clear statement, I wonder if you have understood it.Let's parse it if you don't mind?When it says "I am the Lord, thy God...", do you agree that it was addressed to the Hebrews?If so, "...thou shalt have no other gods before me." does not sound like it denies the existence of other gods but rather says that the Hebrews should not place them at a higher level, a more exalted position.So how is that commandment saying "Nobody should worship anybody but God (meaning the Hebrew god)"?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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"There is no god but God" is just stating the opinion of the government.

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Which is a violation of the separation of church and state. The government is not allowed to publicly endorse one religion over another.

The seperation of church and state means that the institutions of the church and of the state should be seperate. It does not mean that the ideas of the church cannot influence the state.Nearly all the founding fathers liked and supported Christian morals. For example Benjamin Franklin proposed a prayer while working on making the Constitution. America was founded on Christianity, but now it is drifting away.Anyways, this is kinda off topic.

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If you say there no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure?

Um... uh... America was also founded on slavery. Well, I guess we drifted away from that as well.

No, it was addressed to everybody the Commandments were addressed to; the churches have made it very clear that that means everybody.Nobody ever said that I didn't have to follow the commandements because I wasn't Jewish; quite the opposite, and I've been both Protestant and Catholic.