Definition please

Hwy it's a long time ago - I pick it up now and again for reference but that's about it.I'm busy with the Koran at the moment.............(plus trying to work out this superbowl thing)

If that "being" spoke the universe into existance with his words, don't you think it is possible for him to provide some how?God makes several promises in the bible. Some of these you can experience for yourself. But they are all subjective, that is why a lot of people shrug it off, and do not pursue it further. Some things in science are subjective also, yet we believe in it.

As soon as that being spoke it ceased being infinite and entered the realm of the temporal.What are these promises? Can you be sure your'e not being sold land in Florida sight unseen.

Is that a guess? Lol, well if you send me a check for $39.95 to support my ministry, I will send you a green prayer rag. If you act right now, I'll include holy annointing oil, a special prayer from me, and a list of God's promises.Really, there are so many promises in the bible, books have been written about it. For one, he promised Noah the rainbow, he promises us heaven, and he promises us the Holy Spirit.You can start here to study God's promises:
BibleGateway.com - Topical Index: promise

Then why do you believe in this "God"? No answer needed, I don't care. Believe what you will.However, when you said, you stepped into another area. Proof is one thing and your beliefs are another. I know several small children who believe in Santa. Is that proof of Santa's existence? No, and your belief, or anyone's belief, in some deity is no kind of proof, in spite of what you said.It is also interesting to note that you are directly contradicting yourself in the two passages above. Do you know what you're trying to say? It seems you are unclear on even that, given the self-contradictory positions you take.Finally, in response toy your three insulting questions:I am old enough.
My upbringing is apparently better then yours, judging by these questions.
None of your damned business.I will not participate in some simple minded lead on to meaningless ad hominum attacks. Why don't you try replying to the fact that by your own logic, it can be demonstrated that your deity doesn'y exist?The lateness of this reply is due to my being away from home.

You have demostrated nothing. Now there's a lot to be said by your response.
There wasn't a question if you are old enough, since children come to know the Lord.
I wasn't putting down your upbringing, so I do not know why you got defensive, plus you know nothing of my upbringing.
My business is not dammed, it is blessed, thank you.Everyone has to find the Lord on their own. It is a personal thing, and that makes it subjective to others. Even when the Lord smakcs you in the face, we sometimes deny him. I was just trying to get a feel of who you are. I would share my life with you, but I understand if you won't.

I did make a very simple demonstration. You said that by reading the bible one would come to know that your idea of God exists. I pointed out that I have read the bible and I do not accept your idea of God, so by your logic, he does not exist. You still aren't sddressing that. Do you accept my point or admit to an error? You really have no other choices, save continued avoidance.Yes, your business is damned in the sense I was using the word. In this case, your questions are rude and inpertinent and irrelevant and a clear attempt to find something you can use to dismiss me."Everyone has to find the lord on their own"? Why don't you try saving the arrogance and condescenscion and actually reply. Was your statement to me one you stand by, in which case you must admit that it argues against the existence of your deity, or do you admit to your statement being factually incorrect and not an accurate reflection of your actual position?

Your life isn't over yet.

That is incredibly facile. The attitude amongst theists that they are not only right and know universal truth but that everyone must inevitably come to agree with them is one of the more undesirable traits they posess.You have moved the question back a bit in time but still not replied to it. All that is needed is a person who read the Bible and led a full, long life, having never accepted the god of the King James Version or whatever. Very well. I give you two, my Father and Grandfather. I am sure there are more that I can find if I need to.You are left where you were, Rat.People exist that have read the bible and have since died. So, is the original statement that sparked this discussion true or not?

Thats your take on it. My attitude is that Jesus tells us to go into the world and spread the gospel. I try my hardest to do this with love, and this forum is only a small part of it. To spread love through a forum is challenging at best.Ultimately it does not affect me if you do not believe. I will feel bad for you, should something bad happen to you from your lack of belief. This is not my outcome to judge, but is between you and God, and no one else. To read the bible is to comprehend it. If you don't then you really aren't going to find God then are you? Even in church the teachings may be wrong, and not lead you to God.The enemy is strong, and exists in all facets of life. I don't know how old you are, but if you are 25 and do not believe in God, then it's possible the enemy has been decieving you for 25 years. Technically it could take another 25 years to undo what has been done to you already.But the power of Jesus is much greater, should you ask to know him, he will come to you. Should you ask for forgiveness, you are forgiven at that instance. If you deny him, then thats what you get. But I bet he keeps knocking at your door anyway.What I can offer you is someone to talk to about it. Should you ever have questions comprehending the bible, from my humble Christian perspective, I would be glad to offer you what I know. My e-mail is in my profile, and I would always answer you. This offer remains indefinatly.That is what I am doing here in this forum in the first place. I had many misconceptions about just who God was, and what the bible really means to us. I have also learned a lot since being in here. It has also increased my faith in God. Again I tell you, to read is to comprehend. If you read it once, then you haven't read the bible. It is a book that will speak to you differently every time you read it. Most books won't do that for you.
everytime I read it, I get something new from it.

Rr, how many times have YOU read the bible? The whole bible? How many times did it take for you to understand it?

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Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"select * from USERS where CLUE > 0http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
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I have read the complete bible at least once.
I have read many parts of the bible over and over again.
I have read the new testament through twice.When preaching in here, on a typical morning, or through my general study every morning, I read anywhere from 20-500 verses. That's every morning.Plus I read one biblically related book every month, sometimes two.I guess I didn't really come to a point of total understanding until I was baptized in the Holy Spirit (this would also be limited by my human nature). I always had good understanding of certain parts, but the book is so deep, that it takes a bit to get the whole picture.I think the best thing to do is spend some time in prayer to ask God what it all means. The power of prayer is great. God will speak to you.*edit*
I also desire to go take Theology.
I have taken many study courses on the bible.
My wife and I are going to start a bible/prayer group in our church, so I might wind up teaching the bible. It would be through a course study, or the churchs unbrella. Hopefully with God's guidance, I can teach to others with the love of Christ.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 02-09-2005 19:34 AM

So now you are making a distinction between reading and comprehension which did not occur in your original statment. You also say that if a person reads the Bible and comprehends they will see your truth and if they read and do not come to your conclusions, they have not properly comprehended it. Try comprehending this... you are engaging in the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.Why is it so hard for you to simply say that you were wrong? You change terms, (read to comprehend), apply idiosyncratic definitions (comprehend means to reach the same conclusions you did from a given text), and generally avoid the basic point.Way back in message 17, you said: I pointed out the simple fact that I had read the bible and so, by your own logic, since I did not "find" and do not believe in god, he is not real. All you have to do is admit that you were wrong in making that statement, if you do not accept my disbelief after meeting your requirements as evidence that god does not exist. You set the test, I applied it and reported the results. Either accept the results or admit your test was in error.You go on to say: There is nothing "humble" about your perspective at all. You offer only arrogant self assurance and still provide no good defense for your views beyond "I am so right, and if you knew anything you would agree with me, and as you grow older and wiser you may well come to agree with me, and I feel sorry for you if you don't because you'll regret it". Show me exactly what is humble about thinking you are absolutely right in every regard and anyone who disgrees is wrong and will come around if only they will let themselves.I was happy to read the following: Another test! I will do it and report my results, as well as my remembrance of my past efforts in the same vein.

No, I am not. I say they have simple choosen to not believe, or deny the existance of God.The point of the whole conversation, and my original statement is to encourage you to read the bible, so that you may believe. I get nothing from it. I think your a smart person, and should come to know God.It's not a question of reading and then you have to believe or else, thats poopy. It doesn't matter if I am wrong or right, I do not care. Will God not exist if I am wrong? Will make it easier for you to go on not believing in God or follow his ways? Does that make it easier for you to live your life, the way you want to, if I am wrong?Why is it so important to you if I am wrong? That is completely wrong, and a misrepresentation of how I feel.
I was only trying to encourage you to read the bible. I only wish to pray for you, so that believing in God would be more clear to you.
You are too hung up on what I said, and taking it wrong. Hopefully through this conversation you can see more clearly what I mean.
I am 39 with 5 kids ranging from 8-22 years, but still have room to learn.I used to feel exactly like you do about the bible, and would probably make the same remarks you have here. So I understand.

Actually you did say what I rephrased. Shall I quote and link it? Um... no. You made a statement of fact and I took issue with it. As to your encouragement, I do not need it, having read the bible, and do not want it, having no interest in living a life based on deception.All that is unimportant. You made a statement of fact that I showed to be false several times and in several ways. Yet still you refuse to admit that you were simply wrong. You backpedal, try to change the subject and everything else you can do to keep from simply saying "I was wrong, it is not a fact that reading the Bible will result in belief." Instead, we get this from you: It does matter, because that is all this exchange is about. I do not care for your insulting attempts at witnessing to me. Also, it isn't true. If you didn't care, you would admit your error.Finally, you have likely never felt about the Bible like I do and it is typically presumptious of you to think you can know how I feel about it. How about you stop with the senseless and useless preaching and respond like the adult you claim to be? Yes or no, plain and simple, do you still maintain the truth of your original statement that began this exchange? An answer on that and commentary on that point only is all I am interested in.