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Author Topic:   how can any one religion make a valid claim to be the fundamental truth?
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 286 of 302 (181706)
01-29-2005 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by ohnhai
01-29-2005 8:03 AM


Re: What's in a name..
Show me one Christian religion that follows the bible, or God's word to the "T".
From what you say I can only assume yours claims to.
Not one single person on this earth is perfect, but one, Jesus. He is the role model of how we are supposed to be.
What you are doing here is the classic mistake by many people, including myself at one point in my life.
Would you not agree, that the way to communicate with God, and the truth would be through prayer?
who knows, If God existed i would expect he has email by now.
Another classic mistake, the old "if God exists, why doesn't he come down and tell me cry". I also used to think that way.
Well he did send his son to die for our short comings, isn't that the biggest sacrafice a God could make for us? He sent him so that we may know him. If we keep denying he exists, and ignore how he wants us to be, then of course you will not get an e-mail from him.
When I came to know him, I then realized just how many times he came for me. I was too involoved with things of this world to see it clearly. Or I would say "that's not God", and rationalize it with one thing or another. I would make many exuses as to why God doesn't exist. and also why I shouldn't follow his ways.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by ohnhai, posted 01-29-2005 8:03 AM ohnhai has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 287 of 302 (181707)
01-29-2005 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by ohnhai
01-29-2005 8:34 AM


Re: What's in a name..
Why should you care what I think about god? Wouldn’t that be between me and the big guy?
Yes. To be more specific, I care about you.
Are you 100% absolutely sure of that? Are you convinced in your mind that this is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Yes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by ohnhai, posted 01-29-2005 8:34 AM ohnhai has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by ohnhai, posted 01-29-2005 9:00 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 288 of 302 (181710)
01-29-2005 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by nator
01-29-2005 9:07 AM


Re: Hiding in Vagueness
Well, I can "prove" my love to my family, by keeping my promises, showing affection, telling them I love them, etc.
That would be the folk or common definition of "prove".
I agree. That's love over time, as I was saying.
I'm still here almost one year later preaching to you.
If you want to use the mathematical definition of "prove", then no, I don't think that love is applicable to that kind of proof
Thank God.
I can study the brain activity and various other physical and behavioral signs and markers that people display when they report feelings of love, and quantify and define and study love that way. Of course, studying love this way cannot determine if people are actually feeling love or not, only that the brain activity and behavior patterns are consistent with the predictions the researcher made of people who are feeling that emotion.
We agree!
The rest I said about the TOL was just joking around.
quote:True Love is everlasting, and it is not selfish. How can we prove Love without time?
What do you mean by "prove" in this instance.
By what you said, showing love over time is the real way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by nator, posted 01-29-2005 9:07 AM nator has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 289 of 302 (181711)
01-29-2005 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by jar
01-29-2005 10:44 AM


Re: I think you are approaching a very important point...
It's not the written word that determines truth but the reality of actions.
I am saying the truth determines the written word, and peoples actions are a whole other can of beans.
If people misinterpret the written word, for whatever reason, is it the fault of the word, or the truth? Does it make the written word invalid?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by jar, posted 01-29-2005 10:44 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by jar, posted 01-29-2005 6:55 PM riVeRraT has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 290 of 302 (181715)
01-29-2005 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by riVeRraT
01-29-2005 5:57 PM


Re: I think you are approaching a very important point...
I am saying the truth determines the written word,...
I know that's what you're saying.
Please explain how truth determines the written word.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2005 5:57 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by riVeRraT, posted 01-30-2005 7:03 AM jar has replied

ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5162 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 291 of 302 (181717)
01-29-2005 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by riVeRraT
01-29-2005 5:29 PM


Re: I think you are approaching a very important point...
thought christ and God were the same thing? you are you claiming to have two deities now?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2005 5:29 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by riVeRraT, posted 01-30-2005 7:05 AM ohnhai has not replied

ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5162 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 292 of 302 (181722)
01-29-2005 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by riVeRraT
01-29-2005 5:44 PM


Re: What's in a name..
Rat:
but only one thing is perfect, and that is God almighty. Only one thing is true, that is God almighty. Only one thing can save you at the end of this life, and that is God.
Ohn:
Are you 100% absolutely sure of that? Are you convinced in your mind that this is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Rat:
Yes.
OHN:
Do you, in your non-denominational Christian faith, accept that there is even the slightest chance you could be wrong in your ideas and beliefs as to the truth and nature of God (the ‘truth’), Yes or No?
Rat:
Yes absolutly. But the chance to me is more like my interpretation of the truth clouded by by my sinful way of thinking. There is always room for improvment in my faith, in my life, and in the way God wants me to be. I am no better than you
This does not invalidate the religion, or the bible, and definately does not invalidate the truth.
So which is it?
Yes: I am absolutely right in my beliefs as to God without any doubt.
Or
Yes: I could be wrong in my clouded interpretation of the nature and truth of God.
If as you say there is always room for improvement in your understanding of the nature and truth of god, then your understanding as to the nature and truth of god can’t be absolutely true because then there would be no room for improvement.
I will give you this much, the actual truth about the existence of God will forever remain the actual truth, no matter what any of us believe say or do. However we must realise that, as we are all fallible human beings, none of us can ever be 100% sure that we have nailed that truth down in its totality. If we could we wouldn’t be human.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2005 5:44 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by riVeRraT, posted 01-30-2005 7:08 AM ohnhai has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 293 of 302 (181727)
01-29-2005 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by riVeRraT
01-29-2005 5:29 PM


Re: I think you are approaching a very important point...
riVeRrat
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Seems Jesus is up for a fight also.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2005 5:29 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by riVeRraT, posted 01-30-2005 7:09 AM sidelined has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 294 of 302 (181786)
01-30-2005 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 290 by jar
01-29-2005 6:55 PM


Re: I think you are approaching a very important point...
Well, the bible was written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
Once you experience this Holy Spirit, you understand why. The Holy Spirit is the truth. It hasn't changed in 2000 years.
The reason I do not get so hung up on the bible, and point more toward yourself for the truth, is because over the last 2000 years, there has been many translations, and I know there are errors in some versions of the bible. But it is still a good starting point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by jar, posted 01-29-2005 6:55 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Brian, posted 01-30-2005 10:22 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 300 by jar, posted 01-30-2005 11:14 AM riVeRraT has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 295 of 302 (181787)
01-30-2005 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 291 by ohnhai
01-29-2005 7:27 PM


Re: I think you are approaching a very important point...
Christ was sent because despite everything, I think people still didn't get the point.
You can't really compare then with now, can you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by ohnhai, posted 01-29-2005 7:27 PM ohnhai has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 296 of 302 (181788)
01-30-2005 7:08 AM
Reply to: Message 292 by ohnhai
01-29-2005 9:00 PM


Re: What's in a name..
So which is it?
Yes: I am absolutely right in my beliefs as to God without any doubt.
Or
Yes: I could be wrong in my clouded interpretation of the nature and truth of God.
Yes, God is 100% truth, he has to be obviously.
Yes, my personal translation of him, and what is expected of me, could be wrong. That is my fault or man's, not God's.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by ohnhai, posted 01-29-2005 9:00 PM ohnhai has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by ohnhai, posted 01-30-2005 10:11 AM riVeRraT has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 297 of 302 (181789)
01-30-2005 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 293 by sidelined
01-29-2005 9:37 PM


Re: I think you are approaching a very important point...
Way to take things out of context.
Before I explain it to you, would you like to explain to me, just what he meant by that?
This way you can answer your own question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by sidelined, posted 01-29-2005 9:37 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by sidelined, posted 01-30-2005 12:35 PM riVeRraT has not replied

ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5162 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 298 of 302 (181807)
01-30-2005 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by riVeRraT
01-30-2005 7:08 AM


Re: What's in a name..
Yes, God is 100% truth, he has to be obviously.
I cant see why it’s so obvious to assume God is 100% truth so I will have to disagree with you on this point, I feel it’s outside the possibility of man to ascertain the actual truth about god either way (despite my personal belief that God is unlikely to exist). But that is a totally different subject, and one for another thread.
Yes, my personal translation of him, and what is expected of me, could be wrong. That is my fault or man's, not God's.
Thankyou. That is all I was asking.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by riVeRraT, posted 01-30-2005 7:08 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 299 of 302 (181809)
01-30-2005 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by riVeRraT
01-30-2005 7:03 AM


Re: I think you are approaching a very important point...
Hi RR,
Once you experience this Holy Spirit, you understand why. The Holy Spirit is the truth. It hasn't changed in 2000 years.
So, this 'Holy Spirit' is different from the 'spirit' that was with God in Genesis chapter one?
Is it the same spirit but it changed 2000 years ago and hasn't changed since?
The reason I do not get so hung up on the bible ... is because over the last 2000 years, there has been many translations, and I know there are errors in some versions of the bible. But it is still a good starting point.
But, there have been many translations and errors long before 2000 years ago.
Also, I contend that it is not 'some versions of the Bible' that contain errors, they ALL do.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by riVeRraT, posted 01-30-2005 7:03 AM riVeRraT has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 300 of 302 (181815)
01-30-2005 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by riVeRraT
01-30-2005 7:03 AM


Re: I think you are approaching a very important point...
I asked:
Please explain how truth determines the written word.
and you replied
Well, the bible was written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
How does that answer or even pertain to the question I asked?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by riVeRraT, posted 01-30-2005 7:03 AM riVeRraT has not replied

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