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Author Topic:   How Do Scientists Believe in God and Evolution?
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 5 of 145 (465359)
05-05-2008 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Wumpini
05-04-2008 6:26 PM


I believe in the real God
Wumpini writes:
Is it their belief that God existed before the origin of the universe?
No. This may or may not be, I have no belief either way. It also doesn't matter to any aspect of my faith.
What part does God play in their theory regarding the origin of the universe?
What part does God play in their theory regarding the origin of our solar system, and the planet earth?
What part does God play in their theory regarding the origin of life on the planet earth?
What part does God play in their theory regarding the origin of man on the planet earth?
None. It seems very unlikely that God is required to play any part in any of these origins. But either way, the answer to any of these questions is irrelevent to any aspect of my faith.
Is it their belief that God has intervened in the evolutionary process at any time (dramatic changes, complex organs, etc.)?
Is it their belief that God has intervened in the development of man to introduce an eternal spiritual presence that does not exist in other organisms?
No. It seems unlikely that God's intervention is required in any way. But either way, the answer to these questions is irrelevent to any aspect of my faith.
Is it their belief that the miracles recorded in the Bible that contradict the physical laws of nature are true including the resurrection of Jesus Christ?
No. It seems unlikely that any of the miracles as reported in the Bible are actually a part of this reality. But either way, the answer to this question doesn't matter to any aspect of my faith.
I think it would be impossible for someone who does not believe in God to answer these questions for those scientists.
Be careful not to assume that the real God is actually the specific God you believe in.
The question is how to proceed with this thread. Obviously the best evidence would be the personal beliefs of those scientists who fall in this category of believing in God and evolution.
I believe that if God exists, God is too great and 'beyond' for mere humans to have any recognition of what God is like, what God does, and what God's motives are. It is extremely unlikely that any particular religious specification (especially organized religious specifications) of God have any connection whatsoever to the real God(s?), if they even exist.
Your questions do not affect any aspect of my faith, because my faith does not depend upon anything people have discovered/shared. My faith is reserved for those things that cannot be discovered or evidenced or shown. I have faith that love is stronger than hatred. I have faith that love is infinitely powerful. I have faith that hope can never be destroyed. I have faith that it is right to do good things, and that this righteousness is it's own reward. My faith does not even require a God, but if God exists, God certainly is not anything like the supposed beings invented, used and abused by the world's organized religions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Wumpini, posted 05-04-2008 6:26 PM Wumpini has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Wumpini, posted 05-07-2008 9:56 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 12 of 145 (465581)
05-08-2008 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Wumpini
05-07-2008 9:56 PM


Re: I believe in the real God
Wumpini writes:
Which of the following statements would you have selected?
Man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process, including man's creation.
Man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life. God had no part in this process.
From the options provided, I would have selected the second one. If I was personally giving a statement, I wouldn't word it quite so adamantly, but my sentiments definitely follow along that line (currently).
There is no evidence in reality (so far, anyway) that God had any input whatsoever in our (or anything elses) development. This doesn't mean that this is absolute truth, it simply means that it's the best answer with our knowledge-gathered-so-far about this reality. Future knowledge could possibly show otherwise. Then again, it may not. What this does mean, is that my current belief is that God has had no input whatsoever in our (or anything elses) development. I will change this belief as soon as we find evidence to the contrary.
It could easily be wrong, but it's the honest truth gathered from the honest facts provided by the most-up-to-date honest observations of reality. It certainly well may be incomplete, incorrect, or even completely invalid. But what else are we to do? Make a blind guess without any evidence backing it whatsoever and proclaim that to be the "absolute truth"? I am incapable of such a position. I'd rather follow honest investigation, wherever it may lead. At the very least, I know positively that I've tried my very best, and protected myself from being fooled as best I know how.
Regardless of where it came from, I am capable of judging right from wrong.
Regardless of where it came from, I am capable of testing proposed 'truths' against reality to verify those truths.
Regardless of where it came from, I am capable of being fooled.
If I am to proceed with an honest investigation of what reality is like, I must protect myself as best I know how from being fooled. I must verify every proposed 'truth' I come across before I accept it. My ability to judge right from wrong forces me to understand that anything less would be dishonest and therefore morally wrong.
Out of the options provided, this approach leads me to:
"Man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life. God had no part in this process."
...each and every step that I take to reach this conclusion can be objectively verified with our knowledge-gained-so-far as long as it is agreed that being honest and 'doing the right thing' are priorities.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Wumpini, posted 05-07-2008 9:56 PM Wumpini has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 13 of 145 (465582)
05-08-2008 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Percy
05-08-2008 8:45 AM


Re: I believe in the real God
If you're wondering:
Percy writes:
None of the above.
Technically, I agree with Percy.
Practically, I go with the answer I provided with my previous post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Percy, posted 05-08-2008 8:45 AM Percy has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 44 of 145 (468028)
05-26-2008 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by brendatucker
05-26-2008 1:16 PM


Scientists study known reality
brendatucker writes:
Do scientists intend to continue to ignore this higher kingdom in some offhanded hope that they will go away?
No.
I think you give the publicity of this higher kingdom too much credit.
Scientists do not ignore this higher kingdom because they hope it will go away.
Scientists ignore this higher kingdom because they are unaware of it's existence.
First you need to show that this higher kingdom actually exists, then scientists can study it.
Currently, your higher kingdom's chances of existence are equal to that of any figment of my imagination. But it doesn't have to remain so. Try answering any of these questions to start:
Can you show some effect that is only caused by this higher kingdom?
Can you show how this higher kingdom is required to explain any effect that is currently unexplainable?
Can you show the difference between someone who is affiliated with this higher kingdom and someone who is not in a way that cannot be confused with any other explanation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by brendatucker, posted 05-26-2008 1:16 PM brendatucker has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by brendatucker, posted 05-26-2008 5:09 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 57 of 145 (468106)
05-27-2008 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by brendatucker
05-26-2008 5:09 PM


Girasas must be off-topic here
I don't think I understand what you're trying to say.
I don't think you answered the questions I asked at all.
I do know that we're definitely going off-topic for this thread, and that's a bad thing. But it's okay, we can focus on your topic if you simply go to the [forum=-25] forum and start a thread specifically for your ideas.
You seem to talk a lot about what girasas is like and how things work between the 7 races included within. What I'm asking is for you to show me that this is more than an idea in your mind. I look at the world and I do not see any girasas. I don't see anything implying there are 7 races. So what is it that shows your idea to be a part of actual reality?
Please don't respond here (our off-topic chatting will interrupt the current discussion here). But if you would like to explain your ideas, click on the link above and propose a new thread topic. That way we can talk specifically about your ideas and not worry about any other thread (like this one) going off-topic.
If you are going to propose a new topic, I would recommend trying to answer some of the following questions:
-how do you know that girasas is real and not just an idea in your mind? Is there any way we can see girasas? hear girasas? go to girasas? feel girasas?
-how can we distinguish girasas from other possible explanations? That is, when you talk about girasas, how can we know that you're not mistaken?
Just try to explain what you know about girasas and how you know such things. Then we can discuss your ideas and see how they are a part of reality or if we can even judge that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by brendatucker, posted 05-26-2008 5:09 PM brendatucker has not replied

  
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