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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 794 (118555)
06-25-2004 2:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
06-23-2004 12:39 PM


have noticed that there are at least several christian fundies here that have claimed that the end is near and it might just be around the corner.
Could someone please enlighten me as to when the end-times will come and how you came to that conclusion?
Lam, the end times do not suddenly come. There are a number of events which MUST come to pass before the end time. Jesus said that in his Olivet discourse recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 and he named some things which will come to pass but adds, but the end is not yet.
To understand what must come to pass one must go to the OT prophets and to Jesus and the apostles in the NT.
There one thing that MUST occur BEFORE anyone can say the end times are near. Pay close attention, because this is very important and the reason naieve folks have had it wrong in the past is because they don't get this.
1. That one important thing is that after being scattered worldwide, ISRAEL MUST BECOME A NATION AGAIN AND THE JEWS MUST BE OCCUPYING THAT NATION.
2. The Jews MUST reoccupy the old walled city of JERUSALEM -- ALL OF IT, according to Jesus in his Olivet discourse.
3. The new Israel MUST be surrounded by hostile nations and at war with them.
4. There must be the capacity of the world monetary systems to merge. Gold and silver currency MUST be replaced with marks and numbers.
5. There must be some kind of a messenger "flying in the midst of heaven" able to preach the gospel to all nations. (there is a Christian owned satelite flying in the midst of heaven called Sky Angel doing just that)
6. The gospel of Jesus (nothing but a new little cult when prophecy made by Jesus) MUST be preached to all nations of the earth.
7. There must be an emergence of unusual amount of homosexual activity in the world.
8. There must be the capacity for people to see things from a distance in their homes. (TV)
9. World travel must be advance as well as knowledge.
10 There must be a crecendo of hatred and persecution of Christians world wide which eventually become very severe to the point that they must worship a speaking image or be beheaded. TV is a speaking image, BTW.
11. There must emerge a global power with control of all nations. This power must be administered by 10 administrators who "rule as kings" This is the 10 horned beast prophesied in Daniel 7, Revelation 13 and Revelation 17.
12. There must be global warming and a steady increase of disastrous weather and drout. There must be much of the world's forests burned up and grasslands. Famine will increase.
13. There must be the capacity of a 200,000,000 army coming out of the East towards Israel to be included in Armageddon.
14 There must be world apostacy, i.e. departure from truth.
This apostacy will cause a very anti Christian super individual to emerge with great influence and power to essentially control and implement policies of the 10 kingdom world government. He may possibly even be a resurrected individual, for he emerges from the earth. He is the 2 horned beast of Revelation 13, imo.
The above are some of the things which MUST come to pass before ANYONE can say Biblically, that the end time is emerging and near.
There is stuff which comes AFTER the above, which is worse including something falling into one of the oceans, wiping out a third of the ships of that ocean, a "darkening" of the sun and the moon to the point that the moon turns blood red, polution of the waters until they turn red, likely red algae. There will come eventually hail up to a hundred pound balls and in the end a global mother of earthquake that essentially levels the world crust, causing all cities, islands and mountain ranges to fall.
We're not yet to the end of this age when Jesus appears to take over the world and rule it from Jerusalem, but when these things begin to emerge and escalate to fulfillment, it is happening. Be forwarned. Nobody will have an excuse for not knowing. It's all spelled out in quite precise detail and on schedule.
The prophet Isaiah sums it up to this: "Few men will be left in the world." It appears from the specifics that about 2/3 of the world's population will be wiped out by the time of Armageddon and Christ appearing. In Ezekiel chapters 36 through 39 you will find the best and most complete prophecy on the emergence of the nation of Israel and how it will all turn out with that most significant nation so far as the end times go.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 06-23-2004 12:39 PM coffee_addict has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by crashfrog, posted 06-25-2004 10:11 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 56 by fnord, posted 06-25-2004 1:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 794 (118660)
06-25-2004 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by crashfrog
06-25-2004 10:11 AM


1) Sky Angel is the name of the service, not the satellite, according to the company (Dominion Video Satellite). Since the company doesn't have the capital to launch a satellite, they have a relationship with Echostar (DiSh Network) to transmit their signal.
Ok, after checking it appears you're correct. Nevertheless, the prophecy is significant in that the Greek word "ongelos" can either be translated as "angel" or "messenger" and a messenger flying in the midst of heaven, indeed this satelite is.
2) DiSH network does not "preach the gospel to all the nations", as the Echostar satellite only serves North America.
I checked and Sky Angel has a service called "Sky Angel Global Vision" where these satelite programs can be accessed via online programming world wide.
Also this:
Sky Angel Timeline
... under way to expand the service globally, with two satellites presently under ... Eventually,
Sky Angel plans to provide domestic US DBS service exclusively using ...
skyangel.com/About/ Timeline.asp?IdS=001418-58FD2C0&x=002%7C000%7C000&~= - 31k - Cached - Similar pages
@CONTACT - The future of Satellite Communications
... extend their technical support of the Dominion Sky Angel DBS Television ... Sciences Corporation,
Dominion plans to launch two of its own DBS satellites, "DVS-1 ...
http://www.download-now.net/mediacenter/dominion.htm - 14k - Cached - Similar pages
CF says:
Just a quibble, I guess. We're not quite as far along on this as you thought we were.
.....and quite a lot further than you thought we were.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by crashfrog, posted 06-25-2004 10:11 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 794 (118674)
06-25-2004 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by simple
06-25-2004 2:31 AM


Re: Killing?
Are you kidding? Have you never heard of the old Jewish animal sacrifices? There needs to be a temple, and all this religious rites that go with it.
1. There is actually no prophecy that states that the temple must be built before the end of the age, and before the return of Christ Jesus. Where many Christians get this notion is that the antichrist is prophesied to be seen sitting in the temple of god declaring himself to be god. Now there is presently a temple of a god, the god Allah located in the place of the old Jewish temple of the Hebrew/Christian god, Jehovah on Mt Zion, the Temple Mount, the Dome Of The Rock. My understanding of the prophecy concerning the antichrist is that this is that place of god alluded to in the scriptures here.
2. It is prophesied that there will be a great earthquake in Jerusalem leveling the city and of course the Dome. This earthquake will part the Mount of Olives in half, half to the North and half to the West. This is part of the global leveling earthquake prophesied in several places by the prophets and specifically in a couple of Revelation texts, including the last few verses of Revelation 16. The Temple Mount will, however be left and will become the highest mountain of the region and possibly the world from this as I understand the prophets. Isaiah for one prophesied this and I'll have to check for the reference in Isaiah. There will emerge from this earthquake a spring of "living water" flowing from Zion West to the great sea, I assume to be the Mediteranean.
Yah, I know it sounds like a fairy tale, but then so did the Exodus and the parting of the sea, but lo and behold, the chariots in the sea.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 2:31 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Buzsaw, posted 06-25-2004 2:44 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 67 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 4:07 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 69 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 4:15 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 70 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2004 4:23 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 794 (118676)
06-25-2004 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Buzsaw
06-25-2004 2:40 PM


Re: Killing?
I forgot to say that I believe after Jesus returns he will build the temple to suit his desires and it will be far more wonderful and magnificent than anyone could hope to build today. Any animal sacrifices offered in that temple will be for commemoration purposes and not a remedy for sin since Jesus once and for all died for the sins of the whole world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Buzsaw, posted 06-25-2004 2:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by PecosGeorge, posted 06-25-2004 3:20 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 794 (118829)
06-25-2004 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by PaulK
06-25-2004 4:13 PM


Re: sign o' the times
As the title of the thread suggests Buzsaw was there and saw the arguments - and left pleading "lack of time". It's probably worth reading if you are interested in the subject.
Paul, how about the truth? Buz left finally after showing that all the things required in the Olivet Discourse to be fulfilled that have been fulfilled since Jesus spoke the prophecy were far more than could have been fulfilled in 70 years, including the dispersion of the Jews worldwide, the ocupation of the gentiles, many wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes in diverse places, sun and moon being darkened, the preaching of the gospel worldwide, the land becoming desolate, then renewing of the land and the Jews returning to reoccupy the land including the city of Jerusalem. The discourse itself came about as a result of questioning of some apostles concernng the latter days and when he would return.
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, 'Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of your coming and the end of the world? (age)
Buz simply doesn't have time to go on responding to petty yada like you people were resorting to rather than to concede that history attests to the fact that the Bible is indeed a supernatural and reliable book and that many prophecies of Jesus, the OT prophets and the desciples have been and are being fulfilled.

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2004 4:13 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by PaulK, posted 06-26-2004 6:15 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 794 (118851)
06-25-2004 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by PaulK
06-25-2004 7:13 PM


Re: Those Kingdoms
Yes I have read the Book of Daniel. The "feet of iron mixed with clay" are the Hellenistic Kingdoms which dominated the Middle East before Rome - mainly the Seleucids ("King of the North") and the Ptolomies of Egypt ("King of the South"). And the writer of Daniel (those parts at least) knew because that was the time he was writing.
Nonsense! The text says that a stone representing what is describe as the messianic kingdom will strike the image at it's feet and the whole image will crumble to pieces with God's kingdom prevailing upon earth. The purpose of this prophecy is obviously to prophesy the future and ultimately the prevelance of God's much prophesied messianic kingdom which comes in the end of the age of the world order of things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2004 7:13 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by custard, posted 06-25-2004 8:20 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 81 by PaulK, posted 06-26-2004 7:06 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 794 (118895)
06-25-2004 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by PaulK
06-25-2004 4:23 PM


Re: Killing?
According to the interpretation of Daniel usually used by those who argue that the end is near, the AntiChrist will put an end to the daily sacrifices. That would be a little hard to do unless they restart. May we assume that you reject the idea that those refer to the AntiChrist ?
This is a good question, Paul. I do believe these refer to the antichrist. Many orthodox Jews do sacrifices with foul for Passover and there may be a revival of some sacrifical offerings. However these texts do not say the temple will necessarily be in place for them. There may be a temporary setup for them until messiah, who they still look for appears. I may be wrong and a temple may be built, but with an earthquake in the picture the magnitude of what is prophesied for the region, I don't see it being the messianic temple.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2004 4:23 PM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by pink sasquatch, posted 06-28-2004 12:20 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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