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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 164 of 794 (876580)
05-23-2020 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by jar
05-22-2020 5:54 PM


JarThink
, *sigh*
Let me attempt to break down my overall thought process regarding these issues....please dont clutter it up by accusing me of one of many common memes, namely:
1) Word Salad
2) "Biblical Christian Fantasies
3) Misrepresenting Your Position (which I think I somewhat understand)
Are we clear?
Phats Position. GOD exists. GOD is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ lives in me, though there is basically no way I can prove this belief to the satisfaction of any of the many arguments which at least you, I, and perhaps ringo engage in at EvC for the past 15 years or so. I was attempting to use scripture to back up my position. I have found over the years that you never seem to understand or represent my position in our many arguments but, rather, lump me in a category with "carny hucksters, Biblical Christians, and Apologists...at best. At worst you would never seem to grasp my position, choosing instead to dismiss it as word salad. Do you have any idea how insulting that is?
Jars Position: (Gathered from prior quotes which you have made)
The issue is not God but humans Phat. We have covered this very point a Brazillion times yet you never seem to learn or refuse to learn.
the question is "How can humans know they are communing with God?"
You claim that I never can provide an answer. And dont label me as stupido. I know exactly what it is that I have experienced and I have an inner peace and confirmation when I pray that confirms my communion with God individually at least. To attempt to explain it or teach it corporately is another matter. In fact, I think I have stopped teaching it among people I know here in town and rather showing it through my actions and personality. As for you guys at the Forum, I struggle to make my points and frame the issue. Sometimes I think I waste too much time her, but our arguments serve a purpose in that they challenge my beliefs and allow me to think outside the apologetic box. Not that I feel comfortable doing that. You say I refuse to learn. I say that I disagree with what you teach or what I perceive as your teaching.
jar writes:
I ask to be taught how anyone can actually know God while still alive and point out that all the evidence is that not one of those who claim to know God ever provide any answer; and that the reality is that every God ever mentioned is simply the creation of a human mind.
I try to teach that behavior is more productive than belief and that behavior can be tested and verified while belief cannot.
And I can agree with this. I cant teach people what to believe (some say I shouldnt even try) but I can show them how to behave.
What gets me about the EvC arguments is the claim that God is simply a character in a book and that the book is (or was) authored,edited, redacted and taught by men and men alone.
Im trying to use the book itself to show otherwise, but in this instance I run up against logic, reason, and reality. My opponents demand evidence, which I dont have apart from my behavior towards them(you,ringo,tangle,etc etc) so here we are.
Then, for EvC context, lets throw in the decades long arguments which you(seemingly the rest of EvC who are either atheists, secular humanists, or Episcopalian Curmudgeons ) had with our suspended member Faith. I will say publically that Faith was intelligent yet very stubborn and dogmatic. She claimed to be a believer yet would not even listen to or argue with me...she always thought she knew better, but I was unconvinced. GDR was more of a wise Christian, and I recently watched a video he sent me with NT Wright which further nourished my world view. GDR is an example of a commu8nal and cooperative Christian in that we can disagree and yet remain agreeable as to the central focus which we share which is Jesus Christ. Faith never could do that as her issue was Faiths proclamation that what she represented was the proper teaching---end of argument. She refused to even consider the evidence based arguments regarding science, critical thinking, and clear logic. GDR is much friendlier in this area, even though Tangle often calls believers nutters. So we have Believers, (GDR,Faith and Phat) Onetime Believers(ringo and Tangle) and then we have jar.
(you, for the record)
jar writes:
Throw God Away.
jar writes:
Where is there anything in what you post other than your marketing of your fantasies and the God and Holy Spirit that YOU create?
What is a guy supposed to do with that accusation?
jar writes:
I ask to be taught how anyone can actually know God while still alive and point out that all the evidence is that not one of those who claim to know God ever provide any answer; and that the reality is that every God ever mentioned is simply the creation of a human mind.
For the record, whenever I mention God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit I am not referring to inner characters living at Fosters. I attempted to use scripture to point out that Jesus told Peter that The Holy Spirit revealed to Peter who Jesus actually was. You ignored that, perhaps because you and ringo believe that the characters of the Holy Trinity are limited to the book and are not a part of your perceivable reality. I dont know what any of you think really. If we were sittiong down for coffee face to face it would become clearer what our respective positions were, but we are limited to an exchange of written words and I must confess that it is a stretch and a challenge for me to take the time to sit down as I am doing now and actually think about what I am typing. CS Lewis and his buddy JR Tolkien were likely quite skilled at it.
I recently read Peter Hitchens's book(well, I heard it on my Audible) and just now google a YouTube video which I will share in honor of Tangle's other topic, Hitch Is Dead. For some, the same could be said of Jesus. And the whole topic in which I am replying was started by Lammy and addressed the absurdities and hypothetical questions regarding the worldview of Biblical Christians regarding Endtimes Theology. (for the record)
I am expecting jars quick reply to be "What does this rambling diatribe have to do with the topic?" to which I will reply that it really doesnt...its all about Phat, baby.
jar writes:
The issue is not God but humans Phat. We have covered this very point a Brazillion times yet you never seem to learn or refuse to learn.
The issue is about the characters in the book and whether or not they exist outside the book and outside our individual and collective human minds.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by jar, posted 05-22-2020 5:54 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by jar, posted 05-23-2020 11:51 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 165 of 794 (876583)
05-23-2020 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
06-23-2004 12:39 PM


Bear With Me Lammy
You might ask why I revived your old topic many years later, and I will state that I did it because I searched our archives for an existing endtimes topic rather than starting a new one. The times we live in are worrisome, though humanity has endured many such crises. Do you have any comments regarding this old topic, religion in general, or your own (hopefully positive) world view? How is your nutrition going, by the way? You were always an inspiration to me regarding healthy choices, and I did not mean to disrespect you in any way by choosing your old topic to dredge up.
In addition, the reason that I posted the Hitchens Debate was entirely spontaneous...I had not yet even watched the debate, but it did apply to this topic. Christopher mentioned last days Theology around the 1-hour 22-minute mark.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 06-23-2004 12:39 PM coffee_addict has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 167 of 794 (876586)
05-23-2020 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by jar
05-23-2020 11:51 AM


Re: JarThink
jar writes:
Is there any evidence at all that any God(s) or god(s) are not simply characters in a book or story and totally the product of human minds?
Objectively? No. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand the definition of objective evidence to be a point that can be reasonably established as fact(even tentatively) and available for all to examine. The evidence is a merely individual belief.
The Brothers Hitchens have a lively debate with the audience in which some of our arguments at EvC are replicated.
jar writes:
Is there any evidence that all God(s) or god(s) are simply characters in a book or story and totally the product of human minds?
I know you dont like it and even go so far as to mock it, but yes, I do have the audacity and hubris to proclaim that my God is unique among the many gods of literature.
jar writes:
The only way to allow the God of Genesis 1 and the God of Genesis 2&3 to be the same critter is to acknowledge that each description is the God as seen or imagined by one group of people at one time in history. In other words, the two Gods are each the creation of some author or authors within a particular mythos.
I would aargue that any descriptions of God and Jesus are creations based on experience. In fact, I would assert that I dont create God so much as I recreate Him whenever I attempt to define His characteristics. Whats crazy is that I believe that He exists and understands this as the only real way humans can reperesent Him...which is by our behavior. Thus, we agree somewhat.
jar writes:
n addition, as seen here at EvC even those who profess to be Christians cannot arrive at an adequate and acceptable description of the Christian God that can be supported by what is written in the stories without excluding almost all of the other aspects and characteristics found in the Bible stories.
That's because we have each had different experiences. Any creation (or recreation) is based on experience, even if the individual claims it is or was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
jar writes:
There may well be some GOD (I happen to believe there is) but it is not any of the God(s) or god(s) we can read about, write about or even discuss.
I would argue that as Christians we are to narrow our focus to be on Jesus Christ as God. God is unknowable otherwise.
jar writes:
Remember that for every Christian the Communes with some Christian God a Hindu communes with some Hindu God and a Greek communed with some Greek God and an Egyptian communed with some Egyptian God and a Muslim communed with Allah and ...
And Jesus, through whom the world was created, is present in every instance....judging the thoughts and intentions of the human heart.(behavior, perhaps?)
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by jar, posted 05-23-2020 11:51 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-23-2020 12:53 PM Phat has replied
 Message 170 by jar, posted 05-23-2020 1:16 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 169 of 794 (876591)
05-23-2020 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by LamarkNewAge
05-23-2020 12:53 PM


Re: JarThink
I think that you don't understand the supernatural realm. Jesus is God. Human History has always been against this fact because the world belongs to the other spirits. But Jesus came to provide a final answer. It's not that I don't respect your intelligence so much as I think it shackles you.
Matthew, Mark, and Luke never come close to calling Jesus a creator of worlds.
Perhaps. I will have to study them again and reach my own conclusions. It depends on the authors and the source of their inspiration and the motive behind the teaching.
Perhaps the question we should ask is whether or not the writer of the Gospel of John understood the supernatural realm and if he did whether he was seduced by ulterior motives or whether the message was inspired through the One Spirit that created all things seen and unseen.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-23-2020 12:53 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 171 of 794 (876600)
05-23-2020 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by jar
05-23-2020 1:16 PM


Re: JarThink
jar writes:
What does "Jesus ... is present in every instance"even mean?
What does "...judging the thoughts and intentions of the human heart." even mean?
what it means is that the Holy Spirit is in Communion with us.( Not all of us.) Care to argue that? It all does boil down to observable behavior anyway, so essentially I can't really refute your position regarding behavior.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by jar, posted 05-23-2020 1:16 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by jar, posted 05-23-2020 4:41 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 173 by Tangle, posted 05-23-2020 4:42 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 174 of 794 (876621)
05-24-2020 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by Tangle
05-23-2020 4:42 PM


Re: JarThink
Tangle writes:
You've never thought through the implications of that 'not all of us' bit have you?
Actually I have. You are not dead yet, Tangle. Let me make a case using scriptures.
I predict beforehand that the podcasts which I will now share with the EvC peanut gallery will be mocked and ridiculed. I found a prophetic apologist which I trust in Spirit, though he is no better than you or I as a human. He is not superhuman or infallible, though he sticks to his guns when defending the way that scripture and prophecy are interpreted. I'm not going to make those arguments concerning the last day's prophecies and the future of humanity, though I want to present it as what is, in my opinion, likely the best voices for what end-time believers actually think. I have two individuals, both of whom I admit are nonprofit organizations. As I said before, I expect them to be mocked and ridiculed but I hope that you will listen to them and judge their character yourselves.
1) Amir Tsarfati---one of his recent podcasts.
2) John Warner Wallace--Why Moses' Version of the Flood is the Most Reliable Ancient Account. Though I have never claimed to be a Biblical Creationist I do claim to be a Cosmological Creationist. Wallace makes a rational case. He makes a case of why the Bible describes events differently than other religions.
jar will likely label him a carny huckster, but I invite you to draw your own conclusions.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Tangle, posted 05-23-2020 4:42 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Phat, posted 05-24-2020 2:32 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 177 by Tangle, posted 05-24-2020 3:44 PM Phat has replied
 Message 189 by PaulK, posted 05-25-2020 4:32 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 175 of 794 (876630)
05-24-2020 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Phat
05-24-2020 11:39 AM


Why Moses' Version of the Flood is the Most Reliable Ancient Account.
That subtitle is clickbait by the way! Just so EvC understands (somewhat) my thinking processes and why I'm not simply a sheeple(Buzzsaws famous term) waiting to get fleeced by the "apologists" I want to clarify that I have never seen the Bible as word for word literal as did Faith. I respected jars argument regarding the unlikeliness of the global flood (the times square at midnite argument regarding the absence of clear signs which would occur in the fossil record) and I always thought of Faith as unreasonable stubborn and somewhat ignorant in that she brushed off science as if the whole concept itself was a strong delusion sent by God Himself.
She focused on Biblical Creationism while I focused on Jesus as unique among other gods.
It was the same with the End Times Theology. Granted when I first got saved in 1993, my whole world view changed not so much due to the dogma and propaganda of the religious teachings
but due to the experiences regarding perception and awareness of the living reality that is and was Jesus Christ. I have behaved distantly (and humanly) from this obsessive feeling and awareness from time to time, yet I have never thrown it away. It is too valuable for me..so much as that I saw some confirmations that reinforced my beliefs. (The supernatural experience was a big one)
Granted if I am honest with myself I can also say that I have seen a lot of deception in organized religion and that led me to take a more balanced approach to these discussions. (Perhaps that was what jar meant when he urged me to throw God away.)
Thus, as I present these videos to you guys, I am in no way suggesting that you change your minds. I am only giving you some of the best examples of people whom the believers might be inclined to trust. I have one more that I want you to watch. Isaiah Saldivar is a young Pastor/evangelist who got radically saved and transformed back in 2012 and who now does a lot of evangelizing on the internet. (through podcasts) I trust his honesty. You likely won't, but that's ok. We can agree to disagree.
Feel free to challenge what he says and to challenge his honesty and integrity. I know of him and my Pastor knows him personally. He himself will perhaps see your feedback at some point.
Watch this video of one of his podcasts. The actual podcast starts at around the 5-minute mark.....note the countdown timer. Listen in at around the 20-minute mark for a couple of minutes and you will get a feel for what he is preaching.
Update Your Browser | Facebook
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Phat, posted 05-24-2020 11:39 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by PaulK, posted 05-24-2020 2:39 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 179 by PaulK, posted 05-25-2020 9:16 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 178 of 794 (876658)
05-25-2020 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by Tangle
05-24-2020 3:44 PM


Re: JarThink
Tangle writes:
I'm not particularly interested in what those egits say, I'm interested in what you say. What do you say?
I believe that God wants all of us to be saved but that we either agree to it or fight it. I don't share the belief that any God worth their salt would simply save all of us and transport us directly to heaven. I believe that while it can be shown that the characters in the book are limited to the book, the book itself contains the eternal truth which is beyond time. This truth is Jesus Christ.
Tangle writes:
You've never thought through the implications of that 'not all of us' bit have you?
I'm just reporting what is commonly believed and supported.
The God whom I know may say that many are called and few are chosen, but there are no set numbers on either of these populations that any of us can nail down. He chooses all. Some choose Him back. Others deny Him through word and action. jar once argued that God, (like the Warlord) has the ability to save everyone and thus a duty to do so. The counterargument suggests that saving someone who didn't choose to be saved would be unfair to that person(at that point in time before they were transformed) Would you want God to override your honesty in refusing to believe in this stuff? If so, then perhaps He should save you at least. I dunno about everybody...that would be determined on a case by case basis.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Tangle, posted 05-24-2020 3:44 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Tangle, posted 05-25-2020 9:59 AM Phat has replied
 Message 184 by ringo, posted 05-25-2020 12:25 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 181 of 794 (876670)
05-25-2020 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by Tangle
05-25-2020 9:59 AM


Re: JarThink
How can the billions of people that have never heard of the bible, Jesus and all the rest of the claptrap fight it?
I believe they will be judged based only on what they know.
There's nothing to fight.
There are plenty of things to fight in this lifetime and God is not one of them.
How can those that once believed as you did fight it?
What do you mean? Explain what it is that they are to be fighting and what you perceive to be the way that I myself once believed?
It's a really dumb thing to say.
You asked me what I thought but don't accuse me of being dumb. I will dust your ass at chess any day of the week, and I have experienced things that you have never seen (or even thought you saw) so don't give me the attitude that you and some others are any better than me. You don't like it when Christians do that to you now do you?
You just swallow all the hogwash recycle it and refuse to actually THINK.
I do plenty of thinking. I don't simply recycle canned answers, but I don't dismiss the concept of God as casually as you do either. I dunno maybe you can't.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Tangle, posted 05-25-2020 9:59 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Tangle, posted 05-25-2020 11:43 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 183 of 794 (876672)
05-25-2020 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Tangle
05-25-2020 11:43 AM


Re: JarThink
Tangle, Quarantined Fisherman writes:
They are your words, why not read them?
For the record, I read a lot more words than just the Bible.
Tangle writes:
Apparently those are our only choices. It's total cobblers.
I love it when you talk British!
So ask me about what I think of the whole concept of the End Times.
Even the secular humanists believe that global warming may yet do us in.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Tangle, posted 05-25-2020 11:43 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Tangle, posted 05-25-2020 1:22 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 186 of 794 (876680)
05-25-2020 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by ringo
05-25-2020 12:25 PM


Re: JarThink
ringo writes:
What does it actually MEAN for somebody to "be" the truth?
Good question. What jumped out at me right away was the idea of walking the walk rather than simply defining the talk.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by ringo, posted 05-25-2020 12:25 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by ringo, posted 05-25-2020 4:08 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 187 of 794 (876681)
05-25-2020 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Tangle
05-25-2020 1:22 PM


Re: JarThink
Tangle writes:
Stop changing the subject.
Very well. This whole line of reasoning originated with your statement:
Tangle writes:
You've never thought through the implications of that 'not all of us' bit have you?
Phat writes:
I believe that God wants all of us to be saved but that we either agree to it or fight it.
Tangle writes:
Apparently those are our only choices.
What other choices can one have? I suppose one could ignore it. You may claim that I successfully ignore every "god" except the one I happen to choose...which is correct. In a sense, however, I am agreeing with it. So again, what other choice is there besides acceptance or rejection (by conscious choice)
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Tangle, posted 05-25-2020 1:22 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Tangle, posted 05-25-2020 4:49 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 191 of 794 (876695)
05-26-2020 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Tangle
05-25-2020 4:49 PM


Re: JarThink
I asked you to think about what that means. Not all of us I mean really think about it.
Some not others.
OK. I am thinking about it. All that it means to me is that not everyone chose Him.
Are you demanding that He let everyone in the front door? Who do you think you are...nevermind God? With that kind of thinking, why are only some let in your front door?

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Tangle, posted 05-25-2020 4:49 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by jar, posted 05-26-2020 8:02 AM Phat has replied
 Message 193 by Tangle, posted 05-26-2020 8:15 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 194 of 794 (876698)
05-26-2020 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by jar
05-26-2020 8:02 AM


Gatekeepers
jar writes:
Would your parents let you in their door?
Yes. But they may not let you or Tangle in. Is that wrong? Can I come live with you?
Add: And as I think about this topic, I ask myself whom I would leet in my front door. How would I make the judgment call? What criteria would I use to screen them? And why do we seem to think that God should be held to our standard rather than His? Would you demand that your Dad let you in the door if he hesitated? It sounds like a family fight waiting to happen if you ask me.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by jar, posted 05-26-2020 8:02 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by jar, posted 05-26-2020 8:44 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 196 of 794 (876701)
05-26-2020 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by ringo
05-25-2020 12:25 PM


Truth Honesty & Creativity
ringo writes:
What does it actually MEAN for somebody to "be" the truth?
While we are considering that question, I'll throw in another: Why do people lie and deceive? What is the purpose for lies? Is there a conservative truth and a liberal truth? Is truth defined on a spectrum? To me, somebody who is the truth has no lies or deceit in them.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by ringo, posted 05-25-2020 12:25 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by ringo, posted 05-26-2020 5:07 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 199 by PaulK, posted 05-26-2020 11:47 PM Phat has replied

  
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