Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 81 (8972 total)
180 online now:
DrJones*, WookieeB (2 members, 178 visitors)
Newest Member: Howyoudo
Post Volume: Total: 875,411 Year: 7,159/23,288 Month: 1,065/1,214 Week: 77/303 Day: 38/39 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7618
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 136 of 190 (876292)
05-16-2020 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Phat
05-16-2020 2:52 PM


Re: Remix: Answering jars question
Doom, doom, doom ... we're all doomed. The desperate have shouted it down the centuries.

Sorry Phat you're going to be disapointed like all the other idiots (I can't call them prophets) of doom - millions of them down the ages all needing it really badly. Nobody is going to persecute you, nobody is creating a global religion and nobody is going to save you. Nobody is interested. Sorry.

But you know, enjoy your fantasy.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Phat, posted 05-16-2020 2:52 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32506
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 137 of 190 (876293)
05-16-2020 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Phat
05-16-2020 2:04 PM


Re: Billy Graham Represents Apologetics
Phat writes:

What does the Holy Spirit tell you?

And the answer is still valid; "How can I tell if some voice is from some Holy Spirit?"

Phat writes:

Sidenote: jar has heard this question many times before. He likely will ask how anyone could possibly hear from the Holy Spirit and how would they know?

And yet the fact is that no one has ever provided any way to determine if they are hearing from some "Holy Spirit"!

Phat writes:

So my question is this: Do you teach that "believers" will never actually know God or feel His presence until; after they die?

No Phat, I ask to be taught how anyone can actually know God while still alive and point out that all the evidence is that not one of those who claim to know God ever provide any answer; and that the reality is that every God ever mentioned is simply the creation of a human mind.

I try to teach that behavior is more productive than belief and that behavior can be tested and verified while belief cannot.

Phat writes:

You simply can't wrap your mind around the idea that God is living in Spirit among us, can you?

Of course I can Phat; that is why I ask what "God is living in Spirit among us" even means. Unfortunately no believer ever seems to be able to provide an answer although many atheists can easily describe how it could be determined.

Phat writes:

I suppose you would rather trust Trump and the WHO to take care of humanity.

And so once again you simply fall back on misrepresenting my position.

Why is that so common throughout you long history of posts?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Phat, posted 05-16-2020 2:04 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 05-17-2020 2:38 PM jar has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2096
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 138 of 190 (876295)
05-16-2020 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Phat
05-16-2020 2:04 PM


Re: Billy Graham Represents Apologetics
I suppose you would rather trust Trump and the WHO to take care of humanity.

while i wouldn't trust trump to take care of his own ass wiping we at least have actual evidence of his existence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Phat, posted 05-16-2020 2:04 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4163
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 139 of 190 (876297)
05-16-2020 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Phat
05-16-2020 2:04 PM


Re: Billy Graham Represents Apologetics
I suppose you would rather trust Trump and the WHO to take care of humanity. The curent global news is more confusing than ancient scripture.

Sorry, but just what has your god ever done to help us that we should trust him/her/it completely over our own best efforts (even to the point of just giving up and not even trying to save ourselves)? To quote from Steve Martin's fourth feature film (in which he starred), The Man with Two Brains (1983):

quote:
Inspector: You are playing God!

Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr: Somebody has to.


As much as I hate to use popular catch phrases (almost as much as using emojis or Clippie), it is what it is.

Until your god starts picking up the slack, we cannot rely on him/her/it and instead we need to fend for ourselves. To paraphrase somebody's recent remark about Trump wanting to wish the virus away: "Hoping for a miracle should not be Plan A."

(feel free to insert that apologetic joke about the stranded flood victim so certain that God was going to save him that he refuses all other rescue attempts only to be informed after his death by drowning that they were God's attempts to save his life)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Phat, posted 05-16-2020 2:04 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Phat, posted 05-17-2020 2:59 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
AnswersInGenitals
Member
Posts: 545
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 140 of 190 (876303)
05-16-2020 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Phat
05-16-2020 2:52 PM


Calamity of calamities.
The greatest calamity that will befall mankind when the End-Times strike is that all those who so reverently looked forward to the End-Times will no longer have the End-Times to look forward to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Phat, posted 05-16-2020 2:52 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by AZPaul3, posted 05-16-2020 9:55 PM AnswersInGenitals has not yet responded
 Message 146 by Phat, posted 05-17-2020 3:00 PM AnswersInGenitals has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4977
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 141 of 190 (876305)
05-16-2020 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by AnswersInGenitals
05-16-2020 8:25 PM


Re: Calamity of calamities.
And imagine how pissed off that entire army of believes is going to be having been left behind.

Factio Republicana delenda est.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 05-16-2020 8:25 PM AnswersInGenitals has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by dwise1, posted 05-16-2020 10:19 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4163
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 142 of 190 (876307)
05-16-2020 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by AZPaul3
05-16-2020 9:55 PM


Re: Calamity of calamities.
That is precisely why those who have calculated the End Times so precisely and had their followers sell off all their worldly goods make damned sure to lock up their followers in order to give themselves a lot of leeway to make their getttaway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by AZPaul3, posted 05-16-2020 9:55 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6914
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 143 of 190 (876320)
05-17-2020 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Phat
05-13-2020 1:10 PM


Re: no vagueness
Sorry for the delayed response, Phat.

Off topic: Yeah, The Guns of August is good. Another book I enjoyed by Tuchman is The Proud Tower.

Enjoy!


But [Frederick] Douglass was not gone; he was merely dead. -- David W. Blight

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Phat, posted 05-13-2020 1:10 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by NosyNed, posted 05-17-2020 4:49 PM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 144 of 190 (876342)
05-17-2020 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by jar
05-16-2020 5:02 PM


A Believer By Definition
Phat writes:

What does the Holy Spirit tell you?


jar writes:

And the answer is still valid; "How can I tell if some voice is from some Holy Spirit?"

Funny how you say "some" Holy Spirit. You claim to be a Creedal Cradle Christian. As I browsed our archives, I found the following exchange with member Faith: Message 624 and I note that the Wikipedia article covers a lot of ground relating to the thought processes of early Christianity.
jar writes:

and yet the fact is that no one has ever provided any way to determine if they are hearing from some "Holy Spirit"!

You limit yourself to objective evidence and yet claim that you are a believer in an established "club" of modern Christianity. I have discussed a globalist humanist one world religion before and you brought up the Episcopalian National Cathedral.

Which is a perfect example of the future all-inclusive global (consensual) religion which has a form of godliness yet lacks the power due to evidence-based "believers" who have no concept of Jesus living in them nor of "some" Holy Spirit. You likely will say "Thank God we respect the constitution and never checked our brains at the door".

jar writes:

I ask to be taught how anyone can actually know God while still alive and point out that all the evidence is that not one of those who claim to know God ever provide any answer; and that the reality is that every God ever mentioned is simply the creation of a human mind.

The reality is that God is alive through Jesus Christ and that the very concept of reality itself was created by Him and through Him.
I try to teach that behavior is more productive than belief and that behavior can be tested and verified while belief cannot.
Well, I support this to a degree. But you must accept that some beliefs cannot be tested nor verified. You claim that the so-called apologists are all fake, fantasy-based hucksters with a profit-driven (as opposed to prophet driven) agenda.
jar writes:

I ask what "God is living in Spirit among us" even means. Unfortunately, no believer ever seems to be able to provide an answer although many atheists can easily describe how it could be determined.

There you go back to evidence again. Perhaps you are right and essentially win the argument that behavior can be tested. Perhaps you think that your church club is progressive and an improvement over the racist, sexist, exclusive beliefs of the Biblical Christians. And I will agree with all of you that our behavior could definitely be better. Ringo also has a point when he claims that we (or at least I) ignore what Jesus said to do. I know that sitting on the internet endlessly arguing these points does not help my case, but I am doing more every year and predict that the supernatural will soon come out of the closet....forcing the world at large to confront and unverifiable conclusion.

The Kum-Ba_Ya all-inclusive lovey-dovey globalist (and even secular) "religion" is proving to be a clever counterfeit that will sell well.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by jar, posted 05-16-2020 5:02 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by jar, posted 05-17-2020 3:08 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 145 of 190 (876343)
05-17-2020 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by dwise1
05-16-2020 6:16 PM


Re: Billy Graham Represents Apologetics
For the record, I agree that we are charged to try and do our best and not simply wait on Him to fix it. Personally, I do both. I don't see a conflict here.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by dwise1, posted 05-16-2020 6:16 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 146 of 190 (876345)
05-17-2020 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by AnswersInGenitals
05-16-2020 8:25 PM


Re: Calamity of calamities.
Do you mean death? Or do you mean that someday our vaunted human wisdom and belief will proclaim our species as infinite and that no end will come ever in our genetic lineage?

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 05-16-2020 8:25 PM AnswersInGenitals has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 05-17-2020 3:03 PM Phat has responded

  
AnswersInGenitals
Member
Posts: 545
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 147 of 190 (876346)
05-17-2020 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Phat
05-17-2020 3:00 PM


Re: Calamity of calamities.
yes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Phat, posted 05-17-2020 3:00 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Phat, posted 05-17-2020 3:05 PM AnswersInGenitals has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 148 of 190 (876347)
05-17-2020 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by AnswersInGenitals
05-17-2020 3:03 PM


Re: Calamity of calamities.
Yes.
Yes, what? Clarify what you mean, AiG. I need to leave for work now but will reply to your reply later. I hope you are doing well, by the way.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 05-17-2020 3:03 PM AnswersInGenitals has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32506
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 149 of 190 (876348)
05-17-2020 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
05-17-2020 2:38 PM


Re: A Believer By Definition
Read your post above.

Where is there anything in what you post other than your marketing of your fantasies and the God and Holy Spirit that YOU create?

You make claims but refuse to support your claims.

I make claims about what is actually testable and provide the evidence that even you can test.

Is there a difference in those two approaches?

I do not claim to be a believer in some club, I am actually a registered member in that Club. The Anglican Church keeps records of each member and to which parish they are currently registered.

Yes, I have mentioned the Episcopal Church but it is also clear from your response that you either were incapable of actually reading what I wrote or comprehending what you were reading. The Episcopal Church is not some globalist humanist one world religion but rather exactly the opposite. It recognizes that there is not some globalist humanist one world religion and should not be some globalist humanist one world religion but rather many different, unique and often misunderstood different paths and religions.

It is the folk like you, silly childish "Biblical Christians" that believe they alone know the One True Religion, the One that Will Call and Rule Them All.

Phat writes:

The Kum-Ba_Ya all-inclusive lovey-dovey globalist (and even secular) "religion" is proving to be a clever counterfeit that will sell well.

Really Phat. Which of us believes that God will solve the problems and that it's not my job? Can't you even realize that it is you and the Apologists that create and market "God the Gofer".


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 05-17-2020 2:38 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8930
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 150 of 190 (876353)
05-17-2020 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Chiroptera
05-17-2020 9:56 AM


War history
If you liked "The Guns of August" the trilogy by Rick Atkinson --"The Liberation Trilogy" is something I think you'll like a lot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Chiroptera, posted 05-17-2020 9:56 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020