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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7710
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 376 of 429 (878079)
06-25-2020 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by Phat
06-25-2020 8:22 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

This whole live and let live kum-ba-yah thing where everyone has a right to be different clashes with End Times Charismatic Christian Exclusivity.

Which should give you a clue that it's total shite shouldn't it? Totally against everything you believe Jesus to be.

That exclusivity condemns ever human that lived before the mythical resurrection to hell and the billions of others since that, by an accident of birth, have been taught to believe something else - or nothing. It's hideously evil. Fanatically evil; how can you reconcile that policy with god the loving father? How?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 8:22 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by jar, posted 06-25-2020 2:36 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32654
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 377 of 429 (878080)
06-25-2020 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by Tangle
06-25-2020 2:22 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
More importantly it makes God, the creator of all, seen and unseen, unspeakably evil.

But as long as Phat is a favorite then it's fine if his God is unspeakably evil to everyone and everything else.

Phat loves his God that condemns everyone else but waits on Phat and friends.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Tangle, posted 06-25-2020 2:22 PM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 2:50 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14132
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 378 of 429 (878081)
06-25-2020 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 377 by jar
06-25-2020 2:36 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Nonsense. God does not condemn anyone. They condemn themselves by choosing the wrong spirit to follow. If you limit the description of God to the logos of the book, you limit your understanding. If you allow Rhema to describe and explain Him to your own satisfaction (or even to challenge you) you are closer to the truth. I realize that you employ logic, reason, and reality over blatant emotionalism and this is wise, but you also dont seem to understand that people DO get touched by the Holy Spirit. Maybe you were always too busy questioning to trust that koolaid (or Orange Nehi) and you said it yourself once: We are the product of our experiences. The God I market does not favor me, but He also does not simply let people keep their bad habits and accept them anyway. Some stuff has to go. Some people think that inclusivity is more honorable for God than exclusivity but ask yourself if you would let just anyone in your house who needed a place to stay?

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by jar, posted 06-25-2020 2:36 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by jar, posted 06-25-2020 2:56 PM Phat has responded
 Message 386 by Tangle, posted 06-25-2020 3:20 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32654
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 379 of 429 (878082)
06-25-2020 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by Phat
06-25-2020 2:50 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Is God the creator of all that is, seen and unseen?

Is God omniscient?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 2:50 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 2:59 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14132
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 380 of 429 (878083)
06-25-2020 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by jar
06-25-2020 8:52 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
The people of the book! Yes...I feel that simply calling them "people of the book" implies exclusivity. And I argue that exclusivity is in line with an exclusive God versus an irrational inclusive higher power or "force".

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by jar, posted 06-25-2020 8:52 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by jar, posted 06-25-2020 3:00 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14132
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 381 of 429 (878084)
06-25-2020 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 379 by jar
06-25-2020 2:56 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Is God the creator of all that is, seen and unseen?
Yes, we believe so. Despite tangles claims, I believe that God existed before trees and hence before the book was even written.
Is God omniscient?
All knowing? That gets a bit deeper and more philosophical but yes...I believe that God knows the thoughts and intentions of every human heart. Some would argue that He only knows what we have decided to believe and do up to the present moment and that the future is yet to be determined...at least on our end. As to what He knows regarding the future, that is His business. We cant call Him evil if we dont know that He foreknows who gets damned or not now can we?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by jar, posted 06-25-2020 2:56 PM jar has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32654
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 382 of 429 (878085)
06-25-2020 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 380 by Phat
06-25-2020 2:57 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

The people of the book! Yes...I feel that simply calling them "people of the book" implies exclusivity. And I argue that exclusivity is in line with an exclusive God versus an irrational inclusive higher power or "force".

What is written in "the Venite"?

Phat, just a few posts above to even admitted what was written in the Venite.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 2:57 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 3:03 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 384 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 3:06 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14132
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 383 of 429 (878086)
06-25-2020 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by jar
06-25-2020 3:00 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Not sure where you are going here....

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by jar, posted 06-25-2020 3:00 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14132
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 384 of 429 (878087)
06-25-2020 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by jar
06-25-2020 3:00 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
But I will add fuel to this debate by declaring that I believe that God never directly created evil. He created freewilled Angels, one of whom chose to embrace the opportunity. We cant charge God for being evil simply for allowing the possibility of evil to exist IF that angelic being had a free choice to reject it and become exclusive(under His authority) versus inclusive (free to accept both good and evil and live with the decision. But of course if one believes that God is not good but is simply complete, one might fall under this teaching.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by jar, posted 06-25-2020 3:00 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by jar, posted 06-25-2020 3:17 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32654
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 385 of 429 (878090)
06-25-2020 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 384 by Phat
06-25-2020 3:06 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
We can IF we are honest Phat.

You admit that you believe that God is the creator of all, seen and unseen and that God is omniscient.

Such a God can only be evil.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 3:06 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 387 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 3:45 PM jar has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7710
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 386 of 429 (878091)
06-25-2020 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by Phat
06-25-2020 2:50 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

Nonsense. God does not condemn anyone. They condemn themselves by choosing the wrong spirit to follow.

How could anyone choose the Christian god before Christianity was invented? How can anybody not born in a Christian country to Christian parents choose Christianity? Explain.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 2:50 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14132
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 387 of 429 (878098)
06-25-2020 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 385 by jar
06-25-2020 3:17 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
OK, so what modifiers will we have to use to make our God character (Who actually exists as GOD) not so evil? Are you telling me that He cannot know what *we* actually will do until; we actually do it? My argument is that He chooses to limit His knowledge to be in lockstep with our human development over time, for the lifespan of each one of us uniquely. Comments?

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by jar, posted 06-25-2020 3:17 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by ringo, posted 06-25-2020 3:53 PM Phat has responded
 Message 389 by jar, posted 06-25-2020 4:35 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18322
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 388 of 429 (878100)
06-25-2020 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 387 by Phat
06-25-2020 3:45 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

My argument is that He chooses to limit His knowledge to be in lockstep with our human development over time, for the lifespan of each one of us uniquely. Comments?


Comment: Your theology just gets stupider and stupider.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 3:45 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 390 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 4:35 PM ringo has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32654
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 389 of 429 (878110)
06-25-2020 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 387 by Phat
06-25-2020 3:45 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Yes, if there is a hell and God is the creator or all that is, seen and unseen then if the God is omniscient it is evil.

So you can have hell, a God that is the creator of all that is, seen and unseen and even if not good, at least not evil as long as it is also not omniscient.

Edited by jar, : get away from the führer's censorship.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by Phat, posted 06-25-2020 3:45 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14132
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 390 of 429 (878111)
06-25-2020 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by ringo
06-25-2020 3:53 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Thats rather rude. I could just as easily say that you dont understand reality but why throw gasoline around at the library?

And you both have yet to present an alternative description of a God who would not be evil. I know ringo will just say to throw it all away, follow the message, and be a good socialist, but then again he does not see the evidence that humanity needs God. Yet.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by ringo, posted 06-25-2020 3:53 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by ringo, posted 06-25-2020 4:44 PM Phat has responded

  
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