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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
Phat
Member
Posts: 14648
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 421 of 460 (878393)
06-29-2020 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by Aussie
06-29-2020 2:34 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Free will from the deity of your theology is both an illusion and a delusion.

Actually Aussie...the ones doing the bowing are the rebel spirits which we inherited by default since we rejected Jesus Christ. Jesus is not a religion. Quite simply accepting Jesus allows humanity to become filled with the right fuel so that the corruptible spirits cant possess us. In the world of Spiritual War, the battle for territory is the battle for the alliance of creatures. One side lies, cheats, and seduces in order to conquer theirs. Gods side simply stands at the door and knocks...and sends people who also have the Spirit to teach. Accepting God is the most free willed thing anyone will ever do. It need not enslave them into a religious system nor spiritual bondage. The lie of the enemy is that rejecting authority allows freedom. That option does not exist through rejecting authority.

But you already knew all of this and rejected it as myths on the grounds of rationality and science. Bully for you. I suspect that you may yet again reconsider when you see a bit more of the behavior of the human species.

I think that you currently believe that organized religion is the enemy.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Aussie, posted 06-29-2020 2:34 PM Aussie has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18792
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 422 of 460 (878394)
06-29-2020 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 420 by Phat
06-29-2020 3:50 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

Prodigal Angels? Maybe...thats a strange concept which I wont deny nor embrace.


I mentioned the prodigal son to show that you're wrong about God treating the angels as sons.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 420 by Phat, posted 06-29-2020 3:50 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 423 by Phat, posted 07-02-2020 10:17 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14648
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 423 of 460 (878604)
07-02-2020 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 422 by ringo
06-29-2020 4:00 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Yeah but you have mentioned before that Satan was a prodigal and that if you were God you would accept him back into heaven. Here's the kicker. You would accept him the way he is. Not the way that Gods perfect and holy standard actually is.

But thats what happens when you make up your own god.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”? Francis A. Schaeffer
***
“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
? Criss Jami, Killosophy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by ringo, posted 06-29-2020 4:00 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by jar, posted 07-02-2020 10:23 AM Phat has responded
 Message 425 by ringo, posted 07-02-2020 10:34 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32948
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 424 of 460 (878607)
07-02-2020 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by Phat
07-02-2020 10:17 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

Here's the kicker. You would accept him the way he is. Not the way that Gods perfect and holy standard actually is.

What does the story of the prodigal son say about that?

Have you ever really read the Bible or do you just skim through and pick the pieces parts you like as you did with the Venite?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Phat, posted 07-02-2020 10:17 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 426 by Phat, posted 07-02-2020 12:07 PM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18792
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 425 of 460 (878611)
07-02-2020 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 423 by Phat
07-02-2020 10:17 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

Here's the kicker. You would accept him the way he is. Not the way that Gods perfect and holy standard actually is.


God's "perfect and holy standard" is that He welcomes the prodigal son home. You're the one who's disagreeing with God.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 423 by Phat, posted 07-02-2020 10:17 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14648
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 426 of 460 (878619)
07-02-2020 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 424 by jar
07-02-2020 10:23 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
jar and ringo both writes:

What does the story of the prodigal son say about that?

the story of the prodigal son had the son himself come to the end of himself and essentially repent in his own mind before even approaching his father.

Besides...the prodigal son is human. We are talking fallen angels here. But then of course you will mention Milton or Dante or some added narrative to the story of Christianity...which is fair, I suppose. But you cant simply get around the problem of evil as if it is some character trait that humans themselves must deal with. Read History. Watch the new. And stay tuned. Evil is an active force that infects humanity. It will take full repentance and self realization that we messed up and had it better at "home" before we can ever really return there if it is even possible.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”? Francis A. Schaeffer
***
“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
? Criss Jami, Killosophy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by jar, posted 07-02-2020 10:23 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by jar, posted 07-02-2020 12:51 PM Phat has responded
 Message 429 by ringo, posted 07-02-2020 4:02 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32948
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 427 of 460 (878628)
07-02-2020 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 426 by Phat
07-02-2020 12:07 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

But you cant simply get around the problem of evil as if it is some character trait that humans themselves must deal with.

Why not? Is there any evidence of evil that was and is not simply a human characteristic?

Phat writes:

Evil is an active force that infects humanity.

LOL

I wonder if Radio Shack has Evil Meters in stock so we can measure that force.

Phat, the idea that evil is some outside force is just another cop out getouttahell conjob snake oil ******** made up to peddle to the rubes.

It's yet another excuse, another "It's NOT MY Fault" , the divilmademeduit item for the Apologists to market.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 426 by Phat, posted 07-02-2020 12:07 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 428 by Phat, posted 07-02-2020 2:49 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 434 by Phat, posted 09-19-2020 12:34 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14648
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 428 of 460 (878641)
07-02-2020 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by jar
07-02-2020 12:51 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
I figured you would say that! . And your argument is logical and would be true if in fact the supernatural did not exist. But I insist that it does and I insist this based on my own subjective experiences. I know I was not delusional. Presenting proof to the likes of you proves to be more of a challenge, however. Perhaps I place too much stock in winning this argument. I've no need to do so...but it seems that willful ignorance is strong here.

I studied psychology and social psychology and sociology. I understand the theories regarding mob mentality. Confirmation bias. Schizophrenia. I know that the world is not a whimsical magic place where things going bump in the night are explained away as demons. But
and thats a big But. A Huuuuge but. an unexplained reality does in fact exist. As does the Spirit of the living God. Perhaps I need to get away from EvC and live the reality on the streets rather than play armchair quarterback and engage it battles of wit and logic with all of you. I won't be like Faith...staying eternally indoors and fretting about liberal conspiracies.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by jar, posted 07-02-2020 12:51 PM jar has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18792
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 429 of 460 (878646)
07-02-2020 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 426 by Phat
07-02-2020 12:07 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

Besides...the prodigal son is human. We are talking fallen angels here.


You were the one who claimed God treated the angels like sons.

The issue here is not about human behaviour or angel behaviour. It's about God's behaviour. Would God treat angels worse than humans?


"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 426 by Phat, posted 07-02-2020 12:07 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14648
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 430 of 460 (882072)
09-10-2020 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Chiroptera
05-17-2020 9:56 AM


Re: no vagueness
I just noticed that you have been gone for 4 months. Are you OK?

Add by Edit: I sent Chiroptera an email. Hopefully he just got tired of us and/or bored. I pray that he/she is ok.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Chiroptera, posted 05-17-2020 9:56 AM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 431 by Chiroptera, posted 09-19-2020 10:15 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6916
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


(1)
Message 431 of 460 (882368)
09-19-2020 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 430 by Phat
09-10-2020 6:14 AM


Hi, Phat.

Thanks for checking on me.

I recieved your email and the board notice that you responded to my previous post and I meant to respond, but I was busy at the time and I have no sense of how much time has passed, So... sorry.

I'm fine. When Faith was banned the threads I was interested in didn't have much in the way of rightwing participation and I wasn't very interested in contributing when everyone is more or less in agreement with most of what I have to say, so I decided to take a break until things pick up again. Sorry to have worried you.

Edited by Chiroptera, : Inappropriate post title.


But [Frederick] Douglass was not gone; he was merely dead. -- David W. Blight

This message is a reply to:
 Message 430 by Phat, posted 09-10-2020 6:14 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14648
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 432 of 460 (882371)
09-19-2020 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 399 by jar
06-26-2020 8:09 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
jar writes:

Evil is a human creation, an evolved social skill.

It is also totally irrelevant to the discussion and just another attempt by you to avoid dealing with the issue.

There are several parts to the issue.

Is God the creator of all that is, seen and unseen?

Is God omniscient?

Is anyone or anything sent to hell?

If all of those are true then that God is just a piece of shit.

To keep that God from being a piece of shit at least one of those parts must be false.


The one that is false is the first one. God did not directly create evil. He created the possibility of evil. This whole B.S. about evil being some evolved trait is so much hogwash. It was consciously chosen. You can't mock me for trying to apologetically claim that God never created it and yet then go and say that it evolved. But thats the critically thinking pathos known as the Christianity of jar.

Trying to strip Christianity of its supernatural reality and turning it all into human responsibility. One thing I can say we agree on is that humanity will be judged based on what we do with what we know. And the whole idea of marketing an unknowable God until after death(ours, not His) is the Christianity you market even when you claim to market nothing.

Add By Edit: Welcome back, Chiroptera! So glad to see you alive and kicking!! Nothing much has changed here, as you can see.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by jar, posted 06-26-2020 8:09 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by ringo, posted 09-19-2020 12:27 PM Phat has responded
 Message 437 by jar, posted 09-19-2020 1:43 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18792
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 433 of 460 (882372)
09-19-2020 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 432 by Phat
09-19-2020 12:21 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

God did not directly create evil. He created the possibility of evil.


That's a lie.
quote:
Isaiah 45:I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by Phat, posted 09-19-2020 12:21 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 435 by Phat, posted 09-19-2020 12:36 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14648
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 434 of 460 (882373)
09-19-2020 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by jar
07-02-2020 12:51 PM


Marketing A Supernatural Reality
jar writes:

I wonder if Radio Shack has Evil Meters in stock so we can measure that force.

We have them. They are known as polygraphs. You will claim that this supports *your* claim that evil is an evolved trait. Guess you have me there.

Phat, the idea that evil is some outside force is just another cop out getouttahell conjob snake oil ******** made up to peddle to the rubes.
Your irrational vilification of the Christian apologists surely had to come from the soul of Joe Wood. He is the one who also discouraged you from accepting Jesus.

It's yet another excuse...
It CAN be used as an excuse and often is by many of us. The devil cant make you do anything you didn't want to do in the first place, however...unless you become oppressed. They actually cast *something* out of people. With some its a spirit of religion itself. With others it is PRIDE. With still others it is a spirit of intellectualism that denies the Creator on a personal level. This is akin to a spirit of antichrist. (Feel free to collectively scoff!)

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by jar, posted 07-02-2020 12:51 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 438 by AZPaul3, posted 09-19-2020 2:03 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14648
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 435 of 460 (882374)
09-19-2020 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 433 by ringo
09-19-2020 12:27 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
You dont think I knew that scripture? God created Satan indirectly. Im just apologetically explaining why. It would make no sense to directly create evil. God is not in the business of masochism.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 433 by ringo, posted 09-19-2020 12:27 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 436 by ringo, posted 09-19-2020 12:41 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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