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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 436 of 460 (882375)
09-19-2020 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 435 by Phat
09-19-2020 12:36 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

You dont think I knew that scripture?


I knew you were going to ignore it.

Phat writes:

God created Satan indirectly.


Satan has nothing to do with evil.

Phat writes:

Im just apologetically explaining why.


You didn't explain anything. You told a lie. EXPLAIN how Isaiah got it so wrong.

Phat writes:

It would make no sense to directly create evil.


It would make no sense in YOUR theology because your theology makes no sense.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by Phat, posted 09-19-2020 12:36 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32970
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 437 of 460 (882377)
09-19-2020 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 432 by Phat
09-19-2020 12:21 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

jar writes:

Evil is a human creation, an evolved social skill.
It is also totally irrelevant to the discussion and just another attempt by you to avoid dealing with the issue.

There are several parts to the issue.

Is God the creator of all that is, seen and unseen?

Is God omniscient?

Is anyone or anything sent to hell?

If all of those are true then that God is just a piece of shit.

To keep that God from being a piece of shit at least one of those parts must be false.


The one that is false is the first one. God did not directly create evil. He created the possibility of evil.

That is NOT what the Bibles says and as is so often the case from you and the Apologists, simply perverts everything in the Bible, about Christianity and Jesus message.

It also once again shows that you are unwilling or incapable of even reading.

Phat writes:

You can't mock me for trying to apologetically claim that God never created it and yet then go and say that it evolved.

But I never said God created evil; I say that good and evil are simply human creations, an ability we acquires as the gift from the Garden of Eden myth to assign judgements of right and wrong.

Phat writes:

And the whole idea of marketing an unknowable God until after death(ours, not His) is the Christianity you market even when you claim to market nothing.

Again, you once again simply lie.

What I claim is the message of Jesus, the duty of every Christian to follow, is the feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the sorrowful, protect the week, teach the children, shelter the homeless.

What I claim is the message of Jesus, the duty of every Christian to follow, is to fight the good fight.

What I claim is the message of Jesus, the duty of every Christian to follow, is to run the race.

Phat writes:

We have them. They are known as polygraphs.

No Phat, I will point out that once again, you simply use words without learning what they even mean. A Polygraph tells us nothing about good or evil.

Phat, do you EVER actually think about the stuff you post?

Phat writes:

Your irrational vilification of the Christian apologists surely had to come from the soul of Joe Wood. He is the one who also discouraged you from accepting Jesus.

And so you post three more absolute baseless lies.

What is irrational about pointing out that the Apologists simply make shit up?

What evidence do you have that my position might come from Joe Wood and not from the fact that I accept the fact that the Apologists write what they write?

What evidence do you have that The Reverend Father Joe Wood discouraged me from accepting Jesus?

What evidence do you even have that it is not the perversion of Jesus by you and the Apologists that I reject rather than Jesus?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by Phat, posted 09-19-2020 12:21 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 440 by Phat, posted 09-20-2020 9:31 AM jar has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5381
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 438 of 460 (882379)
09-19-2020 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 434 by Phat
09-19-2020 12:34 PM


Re: Marketing A Supernatural Reality
Scoff.

Big problem with people making life decisions based on this crap.

You want to talk evil? This is evil.

I suppose this means you're not going to join the dark side anytime soon?

The offer is still open, you know.

Just say the majik words and you could finally be an atheist.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 434 by Phat, posted 09-19-2020 12:34 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 439 by Phat, posted 09-20-2020 7:48 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 439 of 460 (882380)
09-20-2020 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 438 by AZPaul3
09-19-2020 2:03 PM


Re: Marketing A Supernatural Reality
What majic words would those be, O Human Deity?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 438 by AZPaul3, posted 09-19-2020 2:03 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 442 by AZPaul3, posted 09-20-2020 1:16 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 440 of 460 (882386)
09-20-2020 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 437 by jar
09-19-2020 1:43 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
What is irrational about pointing out that the Apologists simply make shit up?
Because it makes no rational sense to me how you can so easily not only disagree but oppose such a large group of people. I am in no way convinced that they make everything that they believe and preach up, though I will grant that there is much.

What evidence do you have that my position might come from Joe Wood and not from the fact that I accept the fact that the Apologists write what they write?
Joe Wood just started you thinking. That school in general led you on a different path than the apologetic one. You believe that all religions are manmade. This effectively shuts out the possibility of Communion with GOD, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. Perhaps you have eveen thrown them away after reading about other religions, becoming a critically thinking relativist in the process.

What evidence do you have that The Reverend Father Joe Wood discouraged me from accepting Jesus?
Granted I read the words of your confirmation. I cant accuse you of being dishonest, though I think that your strict quest for evidence based thinking took away your ability to believe (and thus receiving Jesus Christ). You may argue that Holy Communion achieves that ritual, but I would argue that its more than a ritual.

What evidence do you even have that it is not the perversion of Jesus by you and the Apologists that I reject rather than Jesus?
All that I have is my own personal experience and the information that I have retained and choose to retain. I also see that you make it a mission to never leave my positions unchallenged. Why not try a little experiment? In this next post, argue my position and I will argue yours. Lets see if I really understand your position and whether you really understand mine.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 437 by jar, posted 09-19-2020 1:43 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 441 by jar, posted 09-20-2020 9:44 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32970
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 441 of 460 (882388)
09-20-2020 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 440 by Phat
09-20-2020 9:31 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

qsWhat is irrational about pointing out that the Apologists simply make shit up?

Because it makes no rational sense to me how you can so easily not only disagree but oppose such a large group of people. I am in no way convinced that they make everything that they believe and preach up, though I will grant that there is much.[/qs]

So again, you present no evidence or reasoned argument other then " it makes no rational sense to me". Reality really does care whether or not it makes sense to anyone Phat.

Phat writes:

What evidence do you have that my position might come from Joe Wood and not from the fact that I accept the fact that the Apologists write what they write?
Joe Wood just started you thinking. That school in general led you on a different path than the apologetic one. You believe that all religions are manmade. This effectively shuts out the possibility of Communion with GOD, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. Perhaps you have eveen thrown them away after reading about other religions, becoming a critically thinking relativist in the process.

Nonsense Phat. My parents taught me to think long before Joe Woods. But yet again, you once again provide no evidence or reasoned argument to support your position.

Pitiful.

Phat writes:

What evidence do you have that The Reverend Father Joe Wood discouraged me from accepting Jesus?
Granted I read the words of your confirmation. I cant accuse you of being dishonest, though I think that your strict quest for evidence based thinking took away your ability to believe (and thus receiving Jesus Christ). You may argue that Holy Communion achieves that ritual, but I would argue that its more than a ritual.

No Phat, I would NOT make such a stupid argument. And yet again, you once again provide no evidence or reasoned argument to support your position.

Can you see a pattern Phat?

Phat writes:

What evidence do you even have that it is not the perversion of Jesus by you and the Apologists that I reject rather than Jesus?
All that I have is my own personal experience and the information that I have retained and choose to retain. I also see that you make it a mission to never leave my positions unchallenged. Why not try a little experiment? In this next post, argue my position and I will argue yours. Lets see if I really understand your position and whether you really understand mine.

I see no reason for me to take a stupid position Phat. And yet again, you once again provide no evidence or reasoned argument to support your position but fall back on the information that you have retained and choose to retain.

The pattern continues.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 440 by Phat, posted 09-20-2020 9:31 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 443 by Phat, posted 09-20-2020 1:36 PM jar has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5381
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 442 of 460 (882391)
09-20-2020 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 439 by Phat
09-20-2020 7:48 AM


Re: Marketing A Supernatural Reality
What majic words would those be, O Human Deity?

Ehh... there is the problem, Phat. I don't know what the majik words are.

They differ by individual mindset and headspace.

You have to find them within your own self.

For me it was sophomore in high school talking with some religious friends when my majik words appeared as a shock of intellect to my young mind, "What the fuck is this shit!? That's crap!"

Still took a few months to come completely out of the closet and become the annoying atheist I am today but I've been spook/ghost-free, conscience-clear and firmly embedded in reality (except for the occasional chemical-induced side trip) ever since.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by Phat, posted 09-20-2020 7:48 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 443 of 460 (882392)
09-20-2020 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 441 by jar
09-20-2020 9:44 AM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
jar writes:

Can you see a pattern Phat?

Indeed I've seen the pattern for over ten years. You ask a question, I give a response,you then go and ridicule my response. You are not some guru, jar. You have no dibs on quality thinking. You will get no points by ridiculing your opponents. Grow up or shut up.
jar writes:

pitiful.

Yes, yes it is.

jar writes:

I see no reason for me to take a stupid position Phat.

The fact that you call your opponents position stupid is juvenile in and of itself. You have regressed since Middle School.
jars belief statement writes:

Dark comes early in northern Maryland, and so it was inevitable that most of the time we entertained ourselves. What can be more entertaining to young men than big issues. Somehow, GOD and religion and mankind’s place in all of this seemed to be a regular topic of discussion. The evenings were long and the conversations often heated. When the weather allowed we’d sit out on the porch, arguing while we waited for our turn up on the ping-pong table, when bad we’d sit around in the front room, or visit one of the Master’s houses where we could huddle in front of the open fire letting ideas rise like sparks from the logs.

It was there, in those long conversations where some of the questions raised by Father Joe and my parents began to get resolved. It was a period of opening horizons, my every belief being challenged by minds as quick and intensive as my own, by experience far greater than my own and by whole new moral systems, the Works of Mencius, the Gnostic Gospels, the philosophies of Greece and Germany, the writings of Thoreau and Frost and Twain and Lewis and Tolkein and Hemingway and Camus and Seller and Yeatman.(...)The discussions with the other kids were the most challenging. The Masters were often Socratic, asking questions to get YOU to think. The other boarders though gave no slack, took no prisoners. You either supported your position or it was toast. It wasn’t important what the position was, no one cared whether or not you agreed with them, but by GOD you better be able to support what YOU believed.

I cant find the exact quote, but you mentioned that you and the other debaters would argue one issue and then once that argument was torn to shreds you would attack the same issue that you just defended...in essence understanding both positions. You show by calling my position *stupid* and by charging me with being unable to think that you really don't understand my position.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 441 by jar, posted 09-20-2020 9:44 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 444 by jar, posted 09-20-2020 2:44 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 445 by ringo, posted 09-21-2020 12:22 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32970
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 444 of 460 (882393)
09-20-2020 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 443 by Phat
09-20-2020 1:36 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
And so once again you present no evidence to support your assertions or even any reasoned arguments.

Try again Phat.

mene mene tekel upharsin.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 443 by Phat, posted 09-20-2020 1:36 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 445 of 460 (882401)
09-21-2020 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 443 by Phat
09-20-2020 1:36 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Phat writes:

Indeed I've seen the pattern for over ten years. You ask a question, I give a response,you then go and ridicule my response.


The pattern is that EVERYBODY ridicules your ridiculous responses. Then you ignore their responses and continue repeating the same old PRATTS.

Edited by ringo, : No reason given.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 443 by Phat, posted 09-20-2020 1:36 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 446 by jar, posted 09-21-2020 2:30 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 447 by FLRW, posted 09-21-2020 3:35 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 450 by Phat, posted 09-23-2020 2:25 AM ringo has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32970
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 446 of 460 (882405)
09-21-2020 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 445 by ringo
09-21-2020 12:22 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
And presents the evidence and reasoned arguments to explain why Phat's response is ridiculous.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 445 by ringo, posted 09-21-2020 12:22 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
FLRW
Member
Posts: 54
Joined: 10-08-2007
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 447 of 460 (882408)
09-21-2020 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 445 by ringo
09-21-2020 12:22 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Let us consider the common theistic belief that God is very powerful. God is the epitome of goodness and he possesses the power to control everything on earth. Now let me introduce you to a problem presented by the famous philosopher Epicurus,

How can a good, all-powerful God tolerate evil? If he can’t stop evil from happening, he can’t be truly all-powerful. But if he is all-powerful and is not inclined to stop the evil persisting on earth, how can he be all-good?

This is commonly known as the Problem of Evil and still puzzles a lot of people. Presumably since everything comes from God, so does evil. God could have saved millions of Jews in WW2 from being killed, but he didn’t. Why did he allow evil? Was it something he wanted to happen?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 445 by ringo, posted 09-21-2020 12:22 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 448 by AZPaul3, posted 09-21-2020 4:11 PM FLRW has not yet responded
 Message 449 by Tangle, posted 09-21-2020 5:54 PM FLRW has not yet responded
 Message 455 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-25-2020 4:16 PM FLRW has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5381
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 448 of 460 (882410)
09-21-2020 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 447 by FLRW
09-21-2020 3:35 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
Why did he allow evil? Was it something he wanted to happen?

He didn't have any choice. He doesn't exist. It's difficult to enforce your will when you're a figment of an ancient ignorant imagination.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by FLRW, posted 09-21-2020 3:35 PM FLRW has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7959
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 449 of 460 (882411)
09-21-2020 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 447 by FLRW
09-21-2020 3:35 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
FLRW writes:

Now let me introduce you to a problem presented by the famous philosopher Epicurus,

There's really no need, it's been done to death here for a dozen years or more. The religionists have no answer, but it makes no difference to their belief. Belief is impervious to logic.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by FLRW, posted 09-21-2020 3:35 PM FLRW has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 451 by Phat, posted 09-23-2020 2:29 AM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 450 of 460 (882417)
09-23-2020 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 445 by ringo
09-21-2020 12:22 PM


Ringos Only Standard. The BIG E
ringo writes:

The pattern is that EVERYBODY ridicules your ridiculous responses. Then you ignore their responses and continue repeating the same old PRATTS.

The point is that none of you have refuted much of anything. All you have done is set the ground rules that I must present verifiable evidence.

Science will never prove that God exists. Period. (I could be wrong, but at that point it is His call)

Just because you were dumb enough to drop your belief does not mean that you can insist that I follow the same path of "logic" that duped you into dropping yours.

There are many nuts and whackos and...yes...cons in my group, but there are some who I consider legit that have seen and done stuff that you would consider impossible barring evidence. The fact that you shut the miraculous off from consideration is your fault---not mine.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 445 by ringo, posted 09-21-2020 12:22 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 453 by ringo, posted 09-23-2020 12:15 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 454 by AZPaul3, posted 09-23-2020 12:49 PM Phat has responded

  
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