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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
Phat
Member
Posts: 14677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 451 of 460 (882418)
09-23-2020 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 449 by Tangle
09-21-2020 5:54 PM


Let It Go, Phat! Do Something Useful For Yourself
Tangle writes:

The religionists have no answer, but it makes no difference to their belief. Belief is impervious to logic.

Not everything is logical.

And as an aside, I know you think I am depriving myself of a useful life by insisting on pushing these arguments. I appreciate your concern.

Im not as whacky in everyday life as I am on this Forum. Thanks for caring, however.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by Tangle, posted 09-21-2020 5:54 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 452 by Tangle, posted 09-23-2020 6:42 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7959
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 452 of 460 (882425)
09-23-2020 6:42 AM
Reply to: Message 451 by Phat
09-23-2020 2:29 AM


Re: Let It Go, Phat! Do Something Useful For Yourself
Phat writes:

Not everything is logical.

Philosophical arguments are logical or they're nothing. The problem of suffering is a logical argument that you - or any other religionist - has no answer to. You can not explain why a god that loves you also tortures you both in this life and potentially in the next.

But, as I say, your beliefs are not rational so why let a little paradox like that worry you? Your beliefs are not founded on reason so it is unlikely that reason will change your mind.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 451 by Phat, posted 09-23-2020 2:29 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 453 of 460 (882431)
09-23-2020 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 450 by Phat
09-23-2020 2:25 AM


Re: Ringos Only Standard. The BIG E
Phat writes:

The point is that none of you have refuted much of anything.


Nonsense. Just the other day I showed you that your apologist was lying through his teeth. I quoted the Bible and I quoted where he directly contradicted it. And no response from you.

Phat writes:

All you have done is set the ground rules that I must present verifiable evidence.


See above. You're ignoring the evidence.

Phat writes:

Science will never prove that God exists.


That isn't the issue here.

Phat writes:

Just because you were dumb enough to drop your belief does not mean that you can insist that I follow the same path of "logic" that duped you into dropping yours.


Logic is logic. You don't get to make up your own. I have SHOWED you the logic - see above - and you ignore it.

Phat writes:

there are some who I consider legit that have seen and done stuff that you would consider impossible barring evidence.


As I keep telling you, I have seen stuff too that I can't explain. Not being able to explain something is not an excuse for making up a bullshit explanation. And it is certainly no excuse for clinging to the bullshit in spite of being shown that it's bullshit.

Why can't you just admit that you don't know?

Phat writes:

The fact that you shut the miraculous off from consideration is your fault---not mine.


I DON'T shut off the miraculous from consideration. I just don't jump to the conclusion of miraculous.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 450 by Phat, posted 09-23-2020 2:25 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5380
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 454 of 460 (882434)
09-23-2020 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 450 by Phat
09-23-2020 2:25 AM


Re: Ringos Only Standard. The BIG E
Science will never prove that God exists.

You've been around these parts long enough to know that science never proves anything. It only weighs the evidence.

And on that score ALL the evidence, with none opposed, considers your god, and all gods, as tales of ancient myths and have no discernable influence in this universe.

The fact that you shut the miraculous off from consideration is your fault---not mine.

Oh pray tell, what "miraculous" anything, anywhere, anytime, can you show us any evidence of happening? I want to see this "miraculous" and its evidence.

Show me.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 450 by Phat, posted 09-23-2020 2:25 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 456 by Phat, posted 09-29-2020 11:44 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 455 of 460 (882485)
09-25-2020 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 447 by FLRW
09-21-2020 3:35 PM


Re: jar and Phat and the God They Each Market
How can a good, all-powerful God tolerate evil? If he can’t stop evil from happening, he can’t be truly all-powerful. But if he is all-powerful and is not inclined to stop the evil persisting on earth, how can he be all-good?

This is commonly known as the Problem of Evil and still puzzles a lot of people. Presumably since everything comes from God, so does evil.

Even the bible itself concedes that, but apologists can't seem to grasp the concept.

quote:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. -- Isaiah 45:7

I suppose it is conceivable that is the absence of good as a frame of reference just as darkness contrasts light -- one would be meaningless without the other, which makes it a requirement to allow the existence of evil. Its also conceivable that God will grant people the ability to fall so as to not conflict with their ability to make freewill choices. Of course, this is where the real slippery slope comes into play. If god is omniscient and already knows the fate of every single human soul, and yet he set the entire thing in motion, then the fate of human beings is all but predetermined. If that is the case, then freewill is merely an illusion.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by FLRW, posted 09-21-2020 3:35 PM FLRW has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 456 of 460 (882575)
09-29-2020 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 454 by AZPaul3
09-23-2020 12:49 PM


Re: Ringos Only Standard. The BIG E
You really need to let go of that word.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 454 by AZPaul3, posted 09-23-2020 12:49 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 457 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2020 12:13 PM Phat has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5380
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 457 of 460 (882579)
09-29-2020 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 456 by Phat
09-29-2020 11:44 AM


Re: Ringos Only Standard. The BIG E
Looking at my Message 454 what word are you suggesting I let go?

I can understand "evidence" being a big pain in the ass for you since you have none and we have it all but I'm not clear to what specific word you refer.

The fact that you shut the miraculous off from consideration is your fault---not mine.

You still need to show us these "miraculous" things you think need to be considered. Got any facts to go with your miracles?


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by Phat, posted 09-29-2020 11:44 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 458 by jar, posted 09-29-2020 12:15 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 459 by Phat, posted 09-29-2020 3:16 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32970
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 458 of 460 (882580)
09-29-2020 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 457 by AZPaul3
09-29-2020 12:13 PM


Re: Ringos Only Standard. The BIG E
Or any evidence what is marketed as a "miracle" actually is miraculous.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 457 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2020 12:13 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 459 of 460 (882585)
09-29-2020 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 457 by AZPaul3
09-29-2020 12:13 PM


Re: Ringos Only Standard. The BIG E
AZPaul3 writes:

I can understand "evidence" being a big pain in the ass for you since you have none and we have it all but I'm not clear to what specific word you refer.

Oh bullshit. You know the word is evidence. And its not true that you guys in any way have it all and that I have none. And that even assumes that physical evidence is even possible in this day and age (regarding Gods existence)

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 457 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2020 12:13 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 460 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2020 4:49 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5380
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 460 of 460 (882590)
09-29-2020 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 459 by Phat
09-29-2020 3:16 PM


Re: Ringos Only Standard. The BIG E
And its not true that you guys in any way have it all and that I have none.

Yeah, it is. The evidence you THINK you have involves a hand-scratched and much embellished compendium of ancient myths with zero confidence in their authorship/legitimacy/efficacy and more centers on your emotional feelings, wants, desires and wishful thinking.

We have gone years round and round on your evidence and your need (your insistence, your demand) that your emotional whims and deepest feelings be seen on the same level of evidence with demonstrable scientific fact because you have none of the latter. Such is rejected as evidence because these are apt to change day to day for no other reason than a spike in your blood sugar level.

If there is anything else more substantial to your "evidence" then, after all these decades of dickin' around, produce it.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 459 by Phat, posted 09-29-2020 3:16 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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