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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 616 of 668 (888009)
08-29-2021 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 602 by Phat
08-28-2021 9:15 PM


Re: Hypothetically Speaking
Phat writes:

Evidently, you think that when Jesus talks about what He tells one individual to do, it applies to all of us.


As I've asked you before, How could there be different standards for salvation? Why would the rich young ruler have to give it all up but Phat gets to keep enough to live in comfort?

And note that in Matthew 25, all nations - i.e. everybody - is judged according to what they did for the least of these. Equal judgement, not preferred judgement for Phat.

Phat writes:

So how many other ways does Jesus portray me?


He portrays you as one who says, "Lord! Lord!" - i.e. one He never knew.

Phat writes:

Am I a rich young ruler who needs to sell all I have?


Anybody who has anything to sell is.

Phat writes:

Or am I a destitute son with no money ...


You would be if you trusted Jesus and did what He said to do.

Phat writes:

... who misses the life he had at his Fathers house?


You're misusing the parable. The prodigal son didn't go home because he missed the life he had. He didn't expect to get that life back. He went home because it was his last resort. He hoped his father wouldn't watch him die.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 602 by Phat, posted 08-28-2021 9:15 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 617 of 668 (888010)
08-29-2021 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 604 by Phat
08-28-2021 10:19 PM


Re: Hypothetically Speaking
Phat writes:

...I would imagine that we will be judged not only on what we *do* vs what we could have done but on our honesty regarding our beliefs....


You're contradicting Jesus.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 604 by Phat, posted 08-28-2021 10:19 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 618 of 668 (888011)
08-29-2021 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 605 by Phat
08-28-2021 10:25 PM


Re: Hypothetically Speaking
Phat writes:

Is it a sin to love my family and close friends and perhaps my country before I start loving everyone in S.America or Africa?


Yes.

Phat writes:

Is that not basic human nature?


I thought you were the one who said that basic human nature is sinful.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 605 by Phat, posted 08-28-2021 10:25 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 619 of 668 (888012)
08-29-2021 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 606 by Phat
08-28-2021 10:36 PM


Re: Tangled Up Hypotheticals
Phat writes:

God is no more Catholic than He is Protestant or Buddhist.


You're being dishonest. You just said two posts ago that:
quote:
...I do not believe that the truth is relative. Granted it seems arrogant and exclusivist to believe that the religion I happened to be raised with and was taught is the closest path to absolute truth....Message 604

Which is it? Is God relatively Catholic or not?


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 606 by Phat, posted 08-28-2021 10:36 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 620 by jar, posted 08-29-2021 3:43 PM ringo has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33409
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 620 of 668 (888014)
08-29-2021 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 619 by ringo
08-29-2021 2:31 PM


Re: Tangled Up Hypotheticals
I wonder if Phat understands the significance of 'catholic'?

From the 'I believes'.

quote:
In one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Edited by jar, : hit wrong key


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 619 by ringo, posted 08-29-2021 2:31 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 621 by Phat, posted 08-30-2021 9:17 AM jar has responded
 Message 623 by ringo, posted 08-30-2021 11:43 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Inactive Member


Message 621 of 668 (888027)
08-30-2021 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 620 by jar
08-29-2021 3:43 PM


Re: Tangled Up Hypotheticals
I understand that "catholic" in that sense does not mean Roman Catholic or the RCC> Tangle was referring to the latter definition, I believe.

Catholic and Apostolic Francis eloquently defends the term. As long as they keep the inclusivism within Christianity-at-large they will do fine, but when they try and synergize all religions as one, they step out of bounds. All paths may lead up the mountain but there is only one top--not many.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 620 by jar, posted 08-29-2021 3:43 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 622 by jar, posted 08-30-2021 10:15 AM Phat has responded
 Message 624 by ringo, posted 08-30-2021 11:44 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33409
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 622 of 668 (888029)
08-30-2021 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 621 by Phat
08-30-2021 9:17 AM


Re: Tangled Up Hypotheticals
Phat writes:

As long as they keep the inclusivism within Christianity-at-large they will do fine, but when they try and synergize all religions as one, they step out of bounds.

Again, that is NOT what the Bible teaches or what Jesus said repeatedly.

Try actually reading the Bible Phat; you might even learn something.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 621 by Phat, posted 08-30-2021 9:17 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 626 by Phat, posted 08-30-2021 2:18 PM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 623 of 668 (888030)
08-30-2021 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 620 by jar
08-29-2021 3:43 PM


Re: Tangled Up Hypotheticals
jar writes:

... one holy catholic and apostolic Church;


Fun fact: the church that I grew up in calls itself the Apostolic Church of Pentecost. It was pretty anti-Roman-Catholic then; I don't know about today.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 620 by jar, posted 08-29-2021 3:43 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 625 by jar, posted 08-30-2021 12:38 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 624 of 668 (888031)
08-30-2021 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 621 by Phat
08-30-2021 9:17 AM


Re: Tangled Up Hypotheticals
Phat writes:

As long as they keep the inclusivism within Christianity-at-large they will do fine, but when they try and synergize all religions as one, they step out of bounds.


You need to back that up.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 621 by Phat, posted 08-30-2021 9:17 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 627 by Phat, posted 08-30-2021 2:21 PM ringo has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33409
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 625 of 668 (888033)
08-30-2021 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 623 by ringo
08-30-2021 11:43 AM


Re: Tangled Up Hypotheticals
That's pretty common in Club Christian. The CoE is apostolic and catholic yet it would be hard to make a case that Henry VIII was pro-Pope even though the title still used by the British Royal Family of 'Defender of the Faith' actually originated when Henry helped put down some North European Protestant movements. But of course, that was before the conflict of calendars; the problem of the calendar involving political communication and negotiation conflicting with the fixed and unmovable biological calendar.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 623 by ringo, posted 08-30-2021 11:43 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 628 by Phat, posted 08-30-2021 2:25 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Phat
Inactive Member


Message 626 of 668 (888035)
08-30-2021 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 622 by jar
08-30-2021 10:15 AM


Re: Tangled Up Hypotheticals
jar writes:

Try actually reading the Bible Phat; you might even learn something.

Quit patronizing me. Your interpretation is not the only one. There are many whom you disagree with or thumb your nose at who have also read the Bible. They see it differently from you. If you have a case that the Bible and Jesus teach all-inclusivism, you can try and present it. Keep patronizing out of it. I am no idiot.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 622 by jar, posted 08-30-2021 10:15 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 629 by jar, posted 08-30-2021 2:48 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Inactive Member


Message 627 of 668 (888036)
08-30-2021 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 624 by ringo
08-30-2021 11:44 AM


Re: Tangled Up Hypotheticals
I'm not talking about Catholicism ve Protestantism. Nor any of the other clubs within Christianity. It's all one big dysfunctional family. We have a few contrarians such as you who don't even believe Jesus is an actual person, but we let you come to the picnics anyway.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 624 by ringo, posted 08-30-2021 11:44 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 630 by ringo, posted 08-31-2021 12:09 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Inactive Member


Message 628 of 668 (888037)
08-30-2021 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 625 by jar
08-30-2021 12:38 PM


Re: Tangled Up Hypotheticals
I'm figuring you guys will again jump to Matthew 25 as proof that many non-Christians will become Catholic and Apostolic by way of invitation. And who am I to argue with scripture. But that's Gods business

The outliers will meet Jesus soon enough.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 625 by jar, posted 08-30-2021 12:38 PM jar has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33409
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 629 of 668 (888039)
08-30-2021 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 626 by Phat
08-30-2021 2:18 PM


Re: Tangled Up Hypotheticals
Phat, I've presented what is actually written in the Bible to you over and over and over and over and over again.

You refuse to retain anything anyone has presented to you.

Where is the evidence that you are simply willfully ********?

If you were an idiot there might be some excuse.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 626 by Phat, posted 08-30-2021 2:18 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 630 of 668 (888045)
08-31-2021 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 627 by Phat
08-30-2021 2:21 PM


Re: Tangled Up Hypotheticals
Phat writes:

I'm not talking about Catholicism ve Protestantism. Nor any of the other clubs within Christianity.


But I am. I'm asking if you consider all of those Christian clubs to be "true" Christians. What about the "liberal" Christians who don't try to argue away what Jesus said? What about the ones who actually LIVE what Jesus said?

Honestly, you're only counting the handful of right-wing fundamentalist wingnuts who agree with your theology, aren't you? You lump the "liberal" Christians who agree with me in with the Hindus and the Mormons and the other heathens, don't you?

Phat writes:

We have a few contrarians such as you who don't even believe Jesus is an actual person, but we let you come to the picnics anyway.


You are the few.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 627 by Phat, posted 08-30-2021 2:21 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 631 by dwise1, posted 08-31-2021 2:58 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
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