Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 81 (8972 total)
173 online now:
AZPaul3, JonF (2 members, 171 visitors)
Newest Member: Howyoudo
Post Volume: Total: 875,412 Year: 7,160/23,288 Month: 1,066/1,214 Week: 78/303 Day: 39/39 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
custard
Inactive Member


Message 91 of 190 (119402)
06-28-2004 4:10 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Nasa
06-26-2004 6:26 AM


Re: Its raining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its raining all over the world,

Isn't that an ELO song?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Nasa, posted 06-26-2004 6:26 AM Nasa has not yet responded

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 3412 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 92 of 190 (119725)
06-28-2004 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by pink sasquatch
06-28-2004 12:20 AM


Re: Matthew
The word "genea" translated this generation in some versions also means race nation or group of people. Since Jesus was talking to Jews it is assumed he meant that the Jewish race will continue existing even through the tribulation. That is what my Scofield and Clarke commentaries tell me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by pink sasquatch, posted 06-28-2004 12:20 AM pink sasquatch has not yet responded

  
PeriferaliiFocust
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 190 (120168)
06-29-2004 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by PecosGeorge
06-23-2004 5:08 PM


Re: no vagueness
I was going to rant about the idiocy of those who are obsessed with the end of times concept, until i saw this post.
The first christian response i've seen in any of the arguements around here. thank you infinately.
A true christian doesn't care when the end is. Also a true christian doesn't care if he/she is referred or respected as a 'true christian', but anyway, a true christian is simply always ready. A true christian probably wouldn't waste very much time debating on this site.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by PecosGeorge, posted 06-23-2004 5:08 PM PecosGeorge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by PecosGeorge, posted 06-30-2004 1:52 PM PeriferaliiFocust has not yet responded

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 5380 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 94 of 190 (120381)
06-30-2004 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by PeriferaliiFocust
06-29-2004 10:11 PM


Re: no vagueness
No, not too much time here. An occasional aside with the hope that someone is moved to thought.
Your words are kind, more so than many said to me from hence. But, as Christ was not moved by either praise nor criticism, I try to emulate.
More than often unsuccessfully. But the concept is understood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by PeriferaliiFocust, posted 06-29-2004 10:11 PM PeriferaliiFocust has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 95 of 190 (875867)
05-08-2020 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
06-23-2004 12:39 PM


16 Years Later. Reflections On A Thought Process
Lammy writes:

I have noticed that there are at least several Christian fundies here that have claimed that the end is near and it might just be around the corner.
Could someone please enlighten me as to when the end-times will come and how you came to that conclusion?

Greetings, Lammy! I pulled this dusty gem out of the archives rather than starting a new topic on what is essentially your question. We all have discussed the Bible, the truth vs the apologetic marketing, redactors, false prophets (and false profiteers), and our own interpretations regarding such hypothetical events. I will share my current perspective in light of the global pandemic, challenging times regarding possible financial depression and social unrest globally, which I now think will be likely, and some personal observations that I have made tying all of the marketing hype, secular news hype, prophecies known and unknown, interpreted by carny barking apologists or by sober-minded Popes.

Let's start with something I read about a new book...an autobiography from the last Pope which I read about recently.
Yahoo News writes:

Berlin (AFP) - Traditionalist former pope Benedict XVI accuses opponents of wanting to "silence" him while associating gay marriage with "the Antichrist" and attacking "humanist ideologies" in a new authorised biography published Monday in Germany.

The 93-year-old, whose original name is Joseph Ratzinger, claims in "Benedict XVI - A Life" that he has fallen victim to a "malignant distortion of reality" in reactions to his interventions in theological debates.

"The spectacle of reactions coming from German theology is so misguided and ill-willed that I would prefer not to speak of it," he says.

The former pope -- who dramatically resigned in 2013 -- was especially criticised for a 2018 text that was seen as critical of the Jewish faith.

"I would rather not analyze the actual reasons why people want to silence my voice," Benedict says.

The German branch of the Catholic Church has for years been led by clergy more disposed to reform than the stringent traditionalism associated with Ratzinger.


Former pope Benedict complains of attempts to 'silence' him
Regarding the whole vilification of gays and homosexuality, I personally see the real focus among Christian conservatives and moderates to be regarding any fleshy form of copulation between any two genders. The traditionalists still take a stand on the man and wife limitation of allowable sexual expression, and I can only comment that nobody in or out of any church has a right to judge the behaviors of another unless it harms others. Rest assured that my only encouragement for you and your significant other is to love deeply, love holistically and completely, and love without partiality. But enough about gays, which I only mentioned in passing due to Ratzingers comment and due to the fact that you are gay.

A more troubling comment that I found mentioned by Ratzinger is the fear of a globalist humanist "one world religion".

EWTN News Nightly on Facebook Watch

If you are still interested after 16 years, we can discuss some of the current news articles, speculations, books written regarding Last Days Prophecies (as interpreted through apologists) ...

quote:
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, well-known Vatican prelate and head of the Congregation on the Doctrine of the Faith, gives a full-length interview to secular journalist Peter Seewald, on a host of controversial and difficult issues facing Catholicism and Christianity at the end of the millennium. Similar to his best-selling book interview in 1985, The Ratzinger Report, he responds with candor and insight, giving answers that are often surprising and always thought-provoking on a series of wide-ranging topics regarding the present and future state of Christianity.
In office from 2005-13, Benedict has frequently been criticized for his attitudes to Islam or to social questions and is accused of attempting to undermine the modernization drive of his successor Pope Francis.

There is lots more where that came from.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 06-23-2004 12:39 PM coffee_addict has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Tangle, posted 05-08-2020 3:24 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 99 by ringo, posted 05-08-2020 4:27 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32506
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 96 of 190 (875868)
05-08-2020 3:07 PM


Yawn!

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Phat, posted 05-10-2020 2:02 PM jar has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7618
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 97 of 190 (875869)
05-08-2020 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Phat
05-08-2020 2:33 PM


Re: 16 Years Later. Reflections On A Thought Process
The end is not nigh and I can't find anyone that cares enough about what you believe to persecute you. I'm really sorry, I know how much you want it.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Phat, posted 05-08-2020 2:33 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by AZPaul3, posted 05-08-2020 4:07 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4977
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 98 of 190 (875872)
05-08-2020 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Tangle
05-08-2020 3:24 PM


Re: 16 Years Later. Reflections On A Thought Process
I'm not doing anything the next few hours. Is it OK if I persecute Phat?

Not really a productive use of time, but, hey, I got nothing else going on and it might make him feel better.


Factio Republicana delenda est.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Tangle, posted 05-08-2020 3:24 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18100
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 99 of 190 (875878)
05-08-2020 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Phat
05-08-2020 2:33 PM


Re: 16 Years Later. Reflections On A Thought Process
Phat writes:

A more troubling comment that I found mentioned by Ratzinger is the fear of a globalist humanist "one world religion".


I don't think he's afraid of "one world religion" as much as he's afraid that it won't be his.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Phat, posted 05-08-2020 2:33 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 05-11-2020 2:56 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 100 of 190 (875957)
05-10-2020 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by jar
05-08-2020 3:07 PM


Our Reality and Gods Reality
jar writes:

yawn!

You won't be yawning once you meet the God you don't claim to need. You may be trying to blame the apologists for lying to the people about the character of God and trying to sell the idea that we need Him, but after examining your argument, factoring in your perceived character (you try to do good, but are stuck in your conclusions arrived at 60 years ago) and weighing in my own biases and fantasies, I conclude that God exists, He is knowable to a degree but is far more complex than we imagine Him to be, and that the following statement that you once made is WRONG.
jar, to RAZD in another topic writes:

What we can say is that it is apparent that there is no need to factor in any God to understand reality.

It's fine to believe in a God but just silly as well as unnecessary to try to assert or insert such an entity.

So says the late Stephen Hawking. He claimed to imagine a universe where God is unnecessary. It appears that he himself is now unnecessary.

But lets examine some of the apologetic claims of the signs pointing towards the Last Days. If you later wish to charge the apologists with palming the pea and misdirecting attention, you can start with me. I will tell you in advance, however, that I am addressing your claim that there is no need to factor in any God to understand reality.

The top minds in science and communication and medicine agree with you. One such man is Jamie Wheal of the Flow Genome Project. He uses lots of big words and concepts which I have to slow down and think about, but essentially I can encapsulate his overall philosophies here:

  • He dismisses the supernatural, as you do.
    the Altered States of Consciousness: There’s Nothing Supernatural About It

    I believe that he and others, brilliant people all, have it wrong.

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 96 by jar, posted 05-08-2020 3:07 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 101 by jar, posted 05-10-2020 2:59 PM Phat has responded
     Message 102 by Tangle, posted 05-10-2020 3:04 PM Phat has responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 32506
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 1.9


    Message 101 of 190 (875962)
    05-10-2020 2:59 PM
    Reply to: Message 100 by Phat
    05-10-2020 2:02 PM


    Re: Our Reality and Gods Reality
    What does the evidence show Phat?

    And you simply continue to misrepresent my position and demonstrate that you cannot actually even comprehend the very words of mine that you quote.

    Phat, every single prediction and prophesy of end times or almost anything else has been shown to be false by reality.

    Basics Phat.

    To show that I am wrong you must provide reasoning and evidence; two things you always seem to forget to bring.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 100 by Phat, posted 05-10-2020 2:02 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 104 by Phat, posted 05-11-2020 8:19 AM jar has responded

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 7618
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 2.8


    Message 102 of 190 (875963)
    05-10-2020 3:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 100 by Phat
    05-10-2020 2:02 PM


    Re: Our Reality and Gods Reality
    Phat writes:

    So says the late Stephen Hawking. He claimed to imagine a universe where God is unnecessary. It appears that he himself is now unnecessary.

    That's beneath even you.

    However, his ideas will influence many generations of physicists and change our understanding of the universe forever.

    I believe that he and others, brilliant people all, have it wrong.

    Oh gosh, who should I side with? I know, someone who has a fucking clue.


    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

    "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 100 by Phat, posted 05-10-2020 2:02 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 103 by Phat, posted 05-11-2020 8:07 AM Tangle has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 13920
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.3


    Message 103 of 190 (875992)
    05-11-2020 8:07 AM
    Reply to: Message 102 by Tangle
    05-10-2020 3:04 PM


    Phat's Blueprint In Defense Of A Last Days Scenario
    Tangle writes:

    Oh gosh, who should I side with? I know, someone who has a fucking clue.

    Tangle! That's beneath even you! I can't expect you to trust my experiences and a critical thinker would have every right (indeed a responsibility) to test my claims. I will say, in my defense, that I am willing to examine other belief systems than my own. The reason that I do so is primarily to understand other approaches to thinking about the future of the human species and what I anticipate the challenges to be.

    In addition, the reason that I say that the brilliant people have it all wrong has a lot to do with my research into how many of them think and of how it so neatly goes against the mindset of the believers whom I know and whom I know of, online. Why do I side with the believers when my worldview is so illogical and unreasonable?

    Why do I trust what I have been taught?

    As you might ask, why am I so predisposed to imagining a bleak future full of war, conflict, and death?

    Finally, why do I need God? We shall examine these questions and others, but first I want to lay out my plan of discussion. Stay tuned.


    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 102 by Tangle, posted 05-10-2020 3:04 PM Tangle has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 106 by ringo, posted 05-11-2020 12:59 PM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 13920
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.3


    Message 104 of 190 (875993)
    05-11-2020 8:19 AM
    Reply to: Message 101 by jar
    05-10-2020 2:59 PM


    Re: Our Reality and Gods Reality
    jar writes:

    What does the evidence show Phat?

    Evidence about what? Let's be specific. Evidence that God exists? For some reason, the original manufacturer left this one blank. Now, what reason *could* that be?

    Tangle asks why God can't simply have created us already loving each other perfectly, loving Him and no sickness, diseases, wars, tragedies, sorta like the whole concept of Heaven is. ringo likely would agree. For them, God does not personally exist for many of the reasons given. Then you come along...(a believer, mind you) and essentially preach the message to throw God away and that the evidence shows Him to be unnecessary. Your argument basically says that humans are charged to *do* all of the work to allow for the continuation and growth of the human species. To your credit, you defend and support your argument by pointing to the evidence. But let me lay out the basic case and scenario that most apologists agree on, (silly though it may sound to the uninitiated) contrast it with a couple of talks I listened to from some of the thinkers that influence the big corporations and the US Military, and arrive at my own conclusion, which you and others likely will challenge.


    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 101 by jar, posted 05-10-2020 2:59 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 105 by jar, posted 05-11-2020 10:12 AM Phat has responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 32506
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 1.9


    Message 105 of 190 (875996)
    05-11-2020 10:12 AM
    Reply to: Message 104 by Phat
    05-11-2020 8:19 AM


    Re: Our Reality and Gods Reality
    Evidence of ANY Christian Prophecy of some End Times has ever been anything other than a con job.

    AbE:

    Again Phat, the topic is "When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?" and so far no one has every provided anything more than vague nonsensical corny doomsday fantasies. No even anything that rises to the level of good fiction.

    Edited by jar, : appalin spallin and see AbE:


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 104 by Phat, posted 05-11-2020 8:19 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 107 by Phat, posted 05-11-2020 1:04 PM jar has responded

      
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.0 Beta
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020