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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 121 of 190 (876166)
05-13-2020 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by jar
05-13-2020 12:17 PM


Re: Our Reality and Gods Reality
jar writes:

I do not have the right to shoot someone in my temple. I would behave much better than the Jesus character in the story.

*sigh*. yeah I can see it now. You would allow the Muslims to set up a booth, as well as the Hindus. You would allow atheists to have equal time with the Priest. Your Temple would be a Temple to an unknown god. Jesus knows some things that you don't.

And if someone broke into your house down in Texas, you would refrain from using your gun? That much I can respect, but how would you stop them?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by jar, posted 05-13-2020 12:17 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by jar, posted 05-13-2020 2:26 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 123 by Phat, posted 05-14-2020 2:48 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32506
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 122 of 190 (876169)
05-13-2020 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Phat
05-13-2020 1:15 PM


Re: Our Reality and Gods Reality
Phat writes:

You would allow the Muslims to set up a booth, as well as the Hindus.

Actually Phat, the National Cathedral not only allows but encourages and invites Muslims and Jews and Hindus in to teach and even worship.

Basics Phat, Basics.

Phat writes:

You would allow atheists to have equal time with the Priest.

Basics Phat, basics.

Atheists were welcome to attend St Paul's as well as any other religion.

Phat writes:

And if someone broke into your house down in Texas, you would refrain from using your gun?

You really have never read the Bible have you Phat? It seems that even the parts you quote are ones you either never read or never understood.

Did any of the people running the stalls that Jesus destroyed at the Temple break in?

AbE:

Topic Phat, do you plan on addressing the topic?

When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?

What are the actual indicators that we are approaching some Biblical End Time?

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Phat, posted 05-13-2020 1:15 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 123 of 190 (876185)
05-14-2020 2:48 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Phat
05-13-2020 1:15 PM


Re: Our Reality and Gods Reality
jar writes:

I would behave much better than the Jesus character in the story.

And what did the "Jesus character" as you so generically call God incarnate do that was so wrong? If someone was selling stuff in my house and I didn't know them or give them permission, they would be out the front door on their ear.

Your whole fantasy that humans can behave better than Jesus has sketchy support at best. Was He not without sin? all have sinned and continue to sin. Jesus knew no sin.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Phat, posted 05-13-2020 1:15 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by jar, posted 05-14-2020 7:39 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32506
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 124 of 190 (876192)
05-14-2020 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Phat
05-14-2020 2:48 AM


Re: Our Reality and Gods Reality
The sellers had been invited in by the actual owners and custodians of the Temple.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Phat, posted 05-14-2020 2:48 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 05-14-2020 5:13 PM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18100
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 125 of 190 (876204)
05-14-2020 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Phat
05-13-2020 11:45 AM


Re: 16 Years Later. Reflections On A Thought Process
Phat writes:

You would claim that the truth is found in evidence. I would challenge that and say that the truth is only found in humans and their inner motives and desires.


What a load of rubbish.

Phat writes:

Looking up old texts and claiming to know how the early believers think or how they arrived at their conclusions is a plot of the enemy, seeking to discredit the truth.


The only enemy is yourself. The only way to defeat that enemy is by facing reality.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Phat, posted 05-13-2020 11:45 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 05-14-2020 5:12 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 126 of 190 (876224)
05-14-2020 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by ringo
05-14-2020 11:36 AM


Re: 16 Years Later. Reflections On A Thought Process
ringo writes:

What a load of rubbish.

Not at all. You can't flip flop on me and use the Bible against me while not allowing me to use it to support my apologetic precepts. You don't even believe that the characters exist outside of the book.

My God created the very evidence that you use.

And I'm leaving right now to go help my friend feed homeless guys and I'm taking spare change, so you can't say anything about me not doing what Jesus says to do either. But you will. I await the mouth that roared.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by ringo, posted 05-14-2020 11:36 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by ringo, posted 05-15-2020 11:48 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 127 of 190 (876225)
05-14-2020 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by jar
05-14-2020 7:39 AM


Re: Our Reality and Gods Reality
Which is greater? The Temple or the One Whom dwells in the Temple? The Deities Son is greater than the landowner's sons or their business partners.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by jar, posted 05-14-2020 7:39 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by jar, posted 05-14-2020 5:20 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32506
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 128 of 190 (876226)
05-14-2020 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Phat
05-14-2020 5:13 PM


Re: Our Reality and Gods Reality
Yawn.

When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?

Stop your silly tap dancing and try to address the topic.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 05-14-2020 5:13 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 05-15-2020 10:56 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 129 of 190 (876245)
05-15-2020 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by jar
05-14-2020 5:20 PM


Billy Graham Represents Apologetics
Stop your silly tap dancing and try to address the topic.
There really isnt much to expect. Billy Graham once put it this way:
Billy Graham writes:


The Bible warns us against making precise predictions about the exact time of Jesus’ return—but His return is certain, and we may well be living in the last days before He comes again. The Bible says, “The night is nearly over; the day is almost here” (Romans 13:12).

Shortly before returning to Heaven Jesus told His disciples that someday He would come back to establish His Kingdom. But before that could take place, He said, certain things would have to happen—and we see many of these today. For example, He said that before His return the Gospel must be preached throughout the world (see Mark 13:10). Never before has this been possible—but now it is, through radio and the Internet and other modern means of communication.

You also have placed your finger on another sign Jesus gave: Satan’s final attempt to halt God’s work through a massive onslaught of evil. Our world is no stranger to evil; Satan has always been working to stop God’s plans. But God’s enemies now have access to modern weapons of mass destruction, and no one can predict what the outcome will be. Jesus said, “You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. … Nation will rise against nation” (Matthew 24:6-7).

The real question, however, is this: Are you ready for Christ’s return? You can be, by turning to Him and putting your faith and trust in Him. Don’t take His warnings lightly, but commit your life without delay to Jesus Christ.

Now...you will laugh at the dogmatic imagery of the Bronze Age mythos, attempting to frame the argument in the way that your Socratic Masters taught you to do (which prevented you from ever accepting the easy answer that Billy Graham gives) but all you end up concluding is that we are responsible. You will shoot down any apologetic argument for the end of the world and say instead that the world won't end based on apologetic fantasies.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by jar, posted 05-14-2020 5:20 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by jar, posted 05-15-2020 11:54 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18100
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 130 of 190 (876247)
05-15-2020 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Phat
05-14-2020 5:12 PM


Re: 16 Years Later. Reflections On A Thought Process
Phat writes:

You can't flip flop on me and use the Bible against me while not allowing me to use it to support my apologetic precepts.


That's the point. You DON'T use the Bible to support apologetic precepts. You don't do ANYTHING to support apologetic precepts. You use apologetic precepts to deny the Bible.

Phat writes:

You don't even believe that the characters exist outside of the book.


For the umpteenth time, I don't have to believe Frodo existed to know what the book says about Frodo.

Phat writes:

... so you can't say anything about me not doing what Jesus says to do either.


I haven't said any such thing. I've said that you flat-out DENY what He said. You SCOFF at what He said.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 05-14-2020 5:12 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32506
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 131 of 190 (876248)
05-15-2020 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Phat
05-15-2020 10:56 AM


Re: Billy Graham Represents Apologetics
We are responsible.

Topic Phat.

When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?

Billy Graham was simply another apologist although perhaps slightly more intelligent and honest that little Graham.

His question of course totally misses the point as expected.

"The real question, however, is this: Are you ready for Christ’s return? You can be, by turning to Him and putting your faith and trust in Him. Don’t take His warnings lightly, but commit your life without delay to Jesus Christ."

Utterly Meaningless Word Salad! Another great cop out from the back of the Medicine Wagon.

Jesus said to do. Not commit. Not even follow. Do!

Shall I re-post what the Jesus character in the Bible said?

In your quote, Billy Graham does not give an easy answer, rather he tap dances to distract you from the fact that he offers NO answer.

Sadly, it works for the CCoI!


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 05-15-2020 10:56 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Phat, posted 05-16-2020 12:00 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 132 of 190 (876282)
05-16-2020 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by jar
05-15-2020 11:54 AM


Re: Billy Graham Represents Apologetics
jar writes:

Topic Phat.

When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?

No man knows the day or the hour, but we can know that there will come an end to either humans or the planet at some future point in time. The Jesus in the book and the jar from Deep South Texas don't seem to see eye to eye.

Matthew 16:13-20 New King James Version (NKJV) writes:

Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Poetic License from Phat.
jar confesses being a member of an established club.
jar says he believes in the Nicene Creed.
jar understands the Bible as a product of man.
Thus such an exchange could hypothetically happen, perhaps in a dream or a prayer.

13 When Jesus came into the region of Mission, Texas, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets. The apologists make up all sorts of stories and use the book to their own marketing agendas.

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

16 jar answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God according to the Nicene Creed. Shucks, I always tell people to throw away the image of you that the apologists market. I just try and help others every day and in every way that I can. After all, I and I alone am responsible for taking up LaCrosse or listening to tales told on the back of a medicine wagon. I'm trying to get Phat to think about his responsibilities rather than his fantasies. "

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, jar of Texas, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
jar stared down at his shoes and looked puzzled. "Was I mistaken to throw you away?"
Jesus answered, "No. You are doing what I commanded people to do. Phat prefers fantasy over reality, but you all forget that I am more than a character in a book. I can change reality any time I choose, according to what my Father tells me."


And why do you challenge Billy Graham's explanation? It works for me. I don't simply throw the Manger Baby out with the Holy bathwater!

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by jar, posted 05-15-2020 11:54 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by jar, posted 05-16-2020 12:52 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32506
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 133 of 190 (876286)
05-16-2020 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Phat
05-16-2020 12:00 PM


Re: Billy Graham Represents Apologetics
Phat writes:

And why do you challenge Billy Graham's explanation?

Because it explains nothing and simply, as it always seems from Apologists, tap dances away and points to the monkey holding the begging cup.

It is not an explanation. It is simply another excuse for not presenting an explanation.

The topic though remains "When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?".

You claim no one can know yet you have also proclaimed you can know the season and that there are signs and all of the usual CCoI word salad. Not too long ago you posited a 2050 date, but again, what little support you presented showed no support for anything resembling the "Biblical End Times™".

Is there ANY support for anything that even faintly or remotely or possibly or kinda-sorta might be anything similar to the "Biblical End Times™"?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Phat, posted 05-16-2020 12:00 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Phat, posted 05-16-2020 2:04 PM jar has responded
 Message 135 by Phat, posted 05-16-2020 2:52 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 134 of 190 (876288)
05-16-2020 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by jar
05-16-2020 12:52 PM


Re: Billy Graham Represents Apologetics
jar writes:

Is there ANY support for anything that even faintly or remotely or possibly or kinda-sorta might be anything similar to the "Biblical End Times™"?

You claim to be a believer. What does the Holy Spirit tell you?

Sidenote: jar has heard this question many times before. He likely will ask how anyone could possibly hear from the Holy Spirit and how would they know?

In essence, he frames the issue the way that he believes...that he believes but has no way of knowing. So my question is this: Do you teach that "believers" will never actually know God or feel His presence until; after they die? If then??? It sounds more like a doubter to me.

Add by Edit: That's why you think that all apologists make stuff up, isn't it? You simply can't wrap your mind around the idea that God is living in Spirit among us, can you? It surely must be a carny sales pitch, huh

I suppose you would rather trust Trump and the WHO to take care of humanity. The curent global news is more confusing than ancient scripture.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by jar, posted 05-16-2020 12:52 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by jar, posted 05-16-2020 5:02 PM Phat has responded
 Message 138 by DrJones*, posted 05-16-2020 5:36 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 139 by dwise1, posted 05-16-2020 6:16 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 135 of 190 (876290)
05-16-2020 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by jar
05-16-2020 12:52 PM


Remix: Answering jars question
jar writes:

Is there ANY support for anything that even faintly or remotely or possibly or kinda-sorta might be anything similar to the "Biblical End Times™"?


I googled a random apologetics page to start my reply. Look, I agree with you and the Bible that many so-called Christians sell religion. I also know that much of it is purposefully fake. One of the signs of the Last Dayus according to many apologists is the rise of a global world religion. It will offend as few as possible and will include every faith and eveery belief. It will be sold as a consensus geared towards global peace and tranquility. The apologists say that it is fake. Jesus is the only way to know God. His exclusivity is an offense to some and a welcoming embrace to others. In the future, people such as you will either take a leap and embrace Jesus (without evidence that you may be embracing a bad burrito) or you will actively oppose and persecute the zealous ones who are convinced that we are in the culminating times that demand human cooperation and consensus. If you do trust Jesus, you will have handed your brain to Him, and He will gladly give it back to you. If you oppose the Christians, you will think you are doing whats right, as Saul did before conversion.

But lets examine my random source, in order to get this conversation going, shall we? 6 Signs Of The Last Days

  • Many Will Come in His Name
  • Lovers of Self
  • Increased Martyrdom
  • Increasing Lawlessness
  • Lovers of Money
  • Man-made and Natural Calamities
  • Loving Evil (2 Timothy 3:1-3)
  • Without Natural Affection
  • Lovers of Self

    Of course one could argue that this is simply the interpretation of scripture by a group of apologists, all of whom are the sons of PT Barnum according to jar.

    But let me ask you this: What is the evidence that we have passed our window of opportunity to mitigate the major effects of global warming? In what way could this lead to wars? What evide3nce do you have that humans will suddenly cooperate and love each other?


    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 133 by jar, posted 05-16-2020 12:52 PM jar has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 136 by Tangle, posted 05-16-2020 3:30 PM Phat has not yet responded
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