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Author Topic:   Does god have free will?
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 105 of 128 (246373)
09-25-2005 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by b b
09-25-2005 8:43 PM


Re: Daddy
quote:
No limitations at all on his actions because who could dare think of judging him?
Do humans have the same ability as God to know the difference between Good and Evil?
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 09-25-2005 08:56 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by b b, posted 09-25-2005 8:43 PM b b has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by b b, posted 09-25-2005 9:25 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 108 of 128 (246479)
09-26-2005 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by b b
09-25-2005 9:25 PM


Re: Daddy
quote:
Good and Evil is cuz he said what was good and what was evil. Obey him or you are evil. That's a harsh way of looking at the truth.
But according to Genesis in the Bible, when Adam and Eve ate of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they attained that ability.
As in, eating the Fruit gave them the same capacity as God to discern Good from Evil:
(italics mine)
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Adam and Eve were becoming like "one of us" (for now I'll ignore discussion of the obvious mention by God that there are other gods), so that's why they got kicked out of the Garden, right?
So, now do you agree that humans, since Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, have exactly the same ability to know Good from Evil as God?
And therefore can judge God's actions or inaction as Good or Evil?
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 09-26-2005 08:21 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by b b, posted 09-25-2005 9:25 PM b b has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by b b, posted 09-29-2005 2:35 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 109 of 128 (246480)
09-26-2005 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Phat
09-26-2005 4:41 AM


Re: Daddy
quote:
who taught you about God?
Well, God did, obviously, right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 09-26-2005 4:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 09-26-2005 8:34 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 111 of 128 (246489)
09-26-2005 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Phat
09-26-2005 8:34 AM


Re: Schraff was right
I wish I could, but the chat function doesn't work for me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 09-26-2005 8:34 AM Phat has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 122 of 128 (248133)
10-02-2005 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by b b
09-29-2005 2:35 AM


Re: Daddy
quote:
we became like them (God and his angels who may be called in some religions gods-there is most of the times one God over the rest. ex Zeus) in that we know good from evil.
Right.
We aquired the same ability as God to discern Good from Evil.
quote:
we have the ability to know good and evil; God has the ability to set/change what is good and evil(not that he will change but can).
Right.
If God declared it Good to rape and pilliage, and Evil to nurture and comfort, it would instantly become Good/Evil to do these things.
and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever
and now, unless he reach out to me, and eat of my fruit, and live forever;
quote:
Is this the end of the sentence or did you just happen to leave out the rest?
The rest is irrelevant to the issue of IF Adam and Eve have the same ability as God to discern Good frm Evil. The passage goes on to discuss their punishments.
So, now do you agree that humans, since Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, have exactly the same ability to know Good from Evil as God?
quote:
No,
What?
You just agreed with me abouve that humans, through Adam and Eve eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, DO have that ability.
Let me quote you again:
quote:
we became like them (God and his angels who may be called in some religions gods-there is most of the times one God over the rest. ex Zeus) in that we know good from evil.
So, which is it? Do we have the same ability as god to tell the difference between Good and Evil or not?
quote:
because I can read and understand what I'm reading. Newton's law(I think it's Newton but really don't care) of {what goes up must come down} would not be interpreted to say anything about what goes sideways. Only up. Therefore, it says at a literal interpretation
The man is similar to us in that he knows good and evil.
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
quote:
What was your grade in English?
Well, I was testing at college level English and reading comprehension when I was in the 7th grade.
quote:
I think it's very convenient how you made both of these say what you want it to say.
I am simply reading the text in a very straightforward way.
So far, you have failed to provide a clear explanation of why my reading is incorrect.
quote:
But most people do this. That's how you get so many religions that use the same bible. For some reason I think you are purposely giving almost correct info. Just tell me what comes after "live forever"
3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Can you please explain why these two passages are important to the matter of if humans have the same ability as God to discern Good from Evil?
(caps mine)
And therefore can MAN judge God's actions or inaction as Good or Evil?
quote:
Answer two questions truthfully for me please, and I'll answer yours. If God comes to earth in the next five minutes and it's without a shadow of a doubt who he is, would you tell him he was wrong for such and such. And if for some reason you are one of the ones who would do this, how would you punish him?
Well, I would first ask what power God has to affect events in the Universe, and why it does not appear that the Universe is looked after by an all-loving, all-powerful God.
If the Bible is correct and I have the same ability as God to know the difference between Good and Evil, AND God really is all-powerful and all-loving, then God would have a great deal of explaining to do for the seeming indifference and downright cruelty God has allowed to happen.
Punishment? If God is all powerful, yet not all-loving, then I don't think there's much I'd be able to do to. It would just be a cruel, vengeful Evil God who's will would be done.
quote:
I think everyone knows what you would really do; I just want to see if you would admit it or weasel out of the questions. Your answer to my questions should reveal my answer to yours. Can a man judge God?
According to the Bible, when Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they gained the same ability as God to know the difference.
So, it seems that yes, humans can judge God's actions or inaction as Good or Evil, if we have the same ability as God.
Can you please explain how this is not the case?
quote:
People do it everyday when they hate God for taking someone or letting them be taken away. Can you actually pass judgement/punishment on God?
According to the Bible, when Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they gained the same ability as God to know the difference.
So, it seems that yes, humans can judge God's actions or inaction as Good or Evil, if we have the same ability as God.
Can you please explain how this is not the case?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by b b, posted 09-29-2005 2:35 AM b b has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by b b, posted 10-04-2005 2:49 AM nator has not replied

  
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