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Author Topic:   Does god have free will?
Phat
Member
Posts: 12172
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 46 of 128 (149388)
10-12-2004 4:06 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by asciikerr
10-12-2004 3:41 AM


Re: The Freshest..
asciikerr writes:

I am indeed a new baby Christian Still...came onto the Lord just 19 months ago. I have been reading the Bible for answers since. I think finding answers to your questions using the Bible would be a great focus of study for me. Who knows, you might be surprised in what the Bible contains, I know I was.

Whats up, BC? (Baby Christian) I have been a Believer for 11 years. When I first got saved, I was ecstatic, arrogant, and naive. I knew that the Bible was more than a book--it was a Living Word to me...but I really found that I did not have the right spirit when I attempted to argue or discuss(convince) others who were non-believers. Now, eleven years later, I can defend the reasons WHY I am a Believer much better than before, but I have discovered that there is no surefire way to prove God to anyone, no matter how many scriptures you have memorized. It is ironic that Christians have what I consider to be a strong Faith, a reasonable Faith, and above all, a personal Faith. We know God. We know that we know that we know. And yet, we have notoriously poor communication/debating skills. If I can give you any advice, B.C. it is this: If you really care about forming a relationship with other members of this forum, be prepared to face rejection of every thought and idea that you propose to them. Be prepared to read the ideas that they put forth, even if you do not agree with them. Above all, be prepared to either hang around and form online dialogue exchanges which almost NEVER prove a point or a belief, yet which allow an interaction between you and us...the rest of us here in the forum.
I am a bit off topic here...must be that darned free will that I have! oh well, if the Holy Spirit lives in you, He is not so concerned with you changing other peoples minds as He is with you interacting with them and allowing Him to influence them. Hope this helps. By the way, I checked out the webpage in your profile...is that your page, asciikerr? http://www.truth-seeker.org Let us know.

This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-12-2004 09:58 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by asciikerr, posted 10-12-2004 3:41 AM asciikerr has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by BobAliceEve, posted 10-12-2004 7:20 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 48 by asciikerr, posted 10-12-2004 4:46 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
BobAliceEve
Member (Idle past 3473 days)
Posts: 107
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Joined: 02-03-2004


Message 47 of 128 (149403)
10-12-2004 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
10-12-2004 4:06 AM


Fantastic advice, Phatboy
quote:
...but I have discovered that there is no surefire way to prove God to anyone... We know that we know that we know. And yet, we have notoriously poor communication/debating skills.

It is better, is it not, that He prove Himself to us than that we, the arm of flesh, do so and risk letting each other down later? However, even individuals with great skills will not convince one against his will.

This comparison may be useful in the discussion. Each of us here has the opportunity to change available to us and we make the choice. God chooses to not change. Having the opportunity to do evil does not make us or God evil, as was suggested in one of the posts. Likewise, simply having the opportunity to do good does not make us good, either.

quote:
be prepared to face rejection of every thought and idea that you propose to them. Be prepared to read the ideas that they put forth, even if you do not agree with them.

I have found that rejection helps me increase my humility. And their ideas allow me to ask God to clarify His ideas to me. Scripture is vital and Divine clarification is a wonderful add-on.

quote:
oh well, if the Holy Spirit lives in you, He is not so concerned with you changing other peoples minds as He is with you interacting with them and allowing Him to influence them. Hope this helps.

Additionally and maybe mostly, He is interested in changing (improving) your mind, "BC", as Phatboy noted was a result of 11 years of experience.

Best wishes

Corrected attribution to Phatboy

This message has been edited by BobAliceEve, 10-12-2004 06:22 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 10-12-2004 4:06 AM Phat has not yet responded

    
asciikerr
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 128 (149480)
10-12-2004 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
10-12-2004 4:06 AM


Re: The Freshest..
Hey Phatboy,

Thanks for the info, always good to find more believers out there, especially in forums where your not too sure who's - who. Even if they don't believe in God, they can't deny that the Bible does hold all of the answers to their questions; Love, Marriage, Sex, etc., I have read through just about all the self-help books out there, including those on philosophy. They all fall short in one place or another, but the Bible continues to go above & beyond all those with answers so obvious that it just makes plain sense. Something we need in this day an age. One example would be the Biblical view on adultery and how that destroys a marriage, although 3000yrs old it still holds its weight even today!

That is my website, I add to it when time allows and according to all that I have learned while reading, studying and researching the claims made in the Bible. Much of it is for those who are the most critical of the Bible, usually the same people who have never really sat down to read it or study its awesome knowledge that has sustained us for over 2000yrs. God's Word is that powerful, it shouldn't just be overlooked because of what others say.

Thanks again, I will try to post later at work. Cheers!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 10-12-2004 4:06 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by CK, posted 10-13-2004 5:44 AM asciikerr has responded
 Message 53 by Dan Carroll, posted 10-13-2004 11:49 AM asciikerr has responded
 Message 72 by Brian, posted 10-13-2004 7:18 PM asciikerr has not yet responded

  
asciikerr
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 128 (149523)
10-12-2004 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Lammy
10-12-2004 3:27 AM


A few lines from the Bible
Hey Lam,

I was reading this last night and thought of you, thought you might like these passages that reflect a little bit on God's Will and His form of Justice. The people here committed many abominations in the Lord's House, they were heavily into idoletry. Here God is choosing not to listen to their cries, even when He can plainly hear them. Do tell me what you think of it.

Ezekiel 7:27
"...I will do to them according to their way, And according to what they deserve I will judge them; Then they shall know that I am the LORD!"

Ezekiel 8:18
"...Therefore I also will act in fury. My eye will not spare nor will I have pity; and though they cry in My ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them."

In this passage, the Lord sends a guy to mark the forheads of those who show true repentance and are remorseful. Those not having this mark will of course been slayed. Just FYI, Prophecy also tells us that those who have given their heart to Jesus also receive a Mark from God(Rev 7:24; 9:4; 14:1). In much the same manner, those not marked (unbelievers)to show they follow God's way will also suffer.

Ezekiel 9:4-6
and the LORD said to him, "Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it."
To the others He said in my hearing, "Go after him through the city and kill; do not let your eye spare, nor have any pity. Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were before the temple.

Questions?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Lammy, posted 10-12-2004 3:27 AM Lammy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Brian, posted 10-13-2004 4:20 AM asciikerr has not yet responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 3037 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 50 of 128 (149594)
10-13-2004 4:20 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by asciikerr
10-12-2004 9:20 PM


Re: A few lines from the Bible
A bit of a barbarian your God isn't it?

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by asciikerr, posted 10-12-2004 9:20 PM asciikerr has not yet responded

    
CK
Member (Idle past 2205 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 51 of 128 (149596)
10-13-2004 5:44 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by asciikerr
10-12-2004 4:46 PM


Re: The Freshest..
quote:
Even if they don't believe in God, they can't deny that the Bible does hold all of the answers to their questions; Love, Marriage, Sex, etc.,

I deny it.

quote:
Much of it is for those who are the most critical of the Bible, usually the same people who have never really sat down to read it or study its awesome knowledge that has sustained us for over 2000yrs.

You want to be careful making that claim here - many a christian has come unstuck when they realise they are quoting what they think is in the bible, rather than what actually is.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by asciikerr, posted 10-12-2004 4:46 PM asciikerr has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by asciikerr, posted 10-13-2004 11:40 AM CK has responded

  
asciikerr
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 128 (149645)
10-13-2004 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by CK
10-13-2004 5:44 AM


Re: The Freshest..
Well, I'm a big fan of quoting the Bible with verses and scripture to support my stand on matters. If I can't find it in the Bible, then I don't say its in there.

How'bout you Mr. Knight, you seem to have doubts and even deny the answers contained therein. What question(s) have you been unable to answer? I can only think of one that wouldn't be answered directly, otherwise if it impacts your life and how you live...its in there! Why do you deny it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by CK, posted 10-13-2004 5:44 AM CK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by CK, posted 10-13-2004 1:00 PM asciikerr has responded

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 128 (149647)
10-13-2004 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by asciikerr
10-12-2004 4:46 PM


Re: The Freshest..
Even if they don't believe in God, they can't deny that the Bible does hold all of the answers to their questions; Love, Marriage, Sex, etc.

I'm curious as to what good advice the Bible holds on this subject. It's usually been my experience that strict adherence to the Bible results in an exceptionally unhealthy attitude towards sex, if not love and marriage as well.

Maybe worth a topic of its own.


"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer
This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by asciikerr, posted 10-12-2004 4:46 PM asciikerr has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by asciikerr, posted 10-13-2004 12:52 PM Dan Carroll has responded

  
asciikerr
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 128 (149665)
10-13-2004 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Dan Carroll
10-13-2004 11:49 AM


Re: The Freshest..
quote:
It's usually been my experience that strict adherence to the Bible results in an exceptionally unhealthy attitude towards sex, if not love and marriage as well.

I'm not too sure what kind of experience that is, if anything the Bible is full of great and wonderful things concerning Marriage. It answers questions like why Man & Women are at each others throats, what God's purpose for our marriage is, how love and sex play a vital role in marriage and so much more. I think those that follow this strict adherence don't really understand what it says. This could be a separate topic all together, or we could hit some of the finer points or questions. You could read some of the stuff I've wrote on the matter and tell me what you think, or we can discuss it on a new thread.

I'm down for discussion on marriage.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Dan Carroll, posted 10-13-2004 11:49 AM Dan Carroll has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Lammy, posted 10-13-2004 12:56 PM asciikerr has not yet responded
 Message 57 by Dan Carroll, posted 10-13-2004 1:01 PM asciikerr has not yet responded

  
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3607
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 55 of 128 (149666)
10-13-2004 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by asciikerr
10-13-2004 12:52 PM


Re: The Freshest..
Well, you probably won't like me, then. I'm gay.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by asciikerr, posted 10-13-2004 12:52 PM asciikerr has not yet responded

    
CK
Member (Idle past 2205 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 56 of 128 (149667)
10-13-2004 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by asciikerr
10-13-2004 11:40 AM


Re: The Freshest..
I'm not sure what answers you are refering to ? there is an interesting collection of stories in that book but frankly most incorrect in both scientific or historical terms - (exodus as in bible? none, Noah's Arc- None, well unless noah could breath steam).

Since I know most of it is rubbish - how do I work out what is even true?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by asciikerr, posted 10-13-2004 11:40 AM asciikerr has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by asciikerr, posted 10-13-2004 1:17 PM CK has not yet responded

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 128 (149668)
10-13-2004 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by asciikerr
10-13-2004 12:52 PM


Re: The Freshest..
Posting a new thread now.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by asciikerr, posted 10-13-2004 12:52 PM asciikerr has not yet responded

  
asciikerr
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 128 (149670)
10-13-2004 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by CK
10-13-2004 1:00 PM


Re: The Freshest..
I understand you have problems with the stories (Noah, Parting of the Red Sea etc.), that was the biggest reason for me not to believe in what the Bible said. It was a constant stumbling block, I didn't even want to pickup the Bible because of those stories, it was all hogwash & rubbish. Why not try finding answers to questions you have pertaining to living a life more abundantly with joy, peace and tranquility as God intended?

quote:
Since I know most of it is rubbish - how do I work out what is even true?
So why not focus your questions on what matters most to you? Rather than keep getting hung up on the stories, which also prevented me from reading it for years on end...now I kick myself in da'@rse almost daily for not reading reading it sooner. What have you got to lose except for more time living with unanswered questions and perhaps even having your soul tormented eternally. Its usually pride that keeps people from reading the Bible, somehow they believe that makes them weak. Its usually not asking that causes problems, if they never ask..nobody will ever tell them. Ask and I'll make every effort to find your answer.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by CK, posted 10-13-2004 1:00 PM CK has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Dan Carroll, posted 10-13-2004 1:19 PM asciikerr has responded

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 128 (149673)
10-13-2004 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by asciikerr
10-13-2004 1:17 PM


Re: The Freshest..
Its usually pride that keeps people from reading the Bible, somehow they believe that makes them weak.

Can I borrow your telepathic helmet? I'll make a killing in Vegas.


"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer
This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by asciikerr, posted 10-13-2004 1:17 PM asciikerr has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by CK, posted 10-13-2004 1:33 PM Dan Carroll has not yet responded
 Message 61 by asciikerr, posted 10-13-2004 1:33 PM Dan Carroll has not yet responded

  
CK
Member (Idle past 2205 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 60 of 128 (149674)
10-13-2004 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Dan Carroll
10-13-2004 1:19 PM


Re: The Freshest..
But I have read the bible it's more seem to make less sense each time.

Opps! not meant as a reply to Dan!

This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 10-13-2004 12:46 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Dan Carroll, posted 10-13-2004 1:19 PM Dan Carroll has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by asciikerr, posted 10-13-2004 1:47 PM CK has responded

  
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