The philosophy behind The Twelve Steps

Actually, even if the clauses concerning God were deleted from AA, I am with you in saying that the 'powerlessness' thing does more harm than good.In my experience it is the excuse behind much of that binging Crash mentioned. Add to this the newer research...valid as it may be...concerning biological predisposition to addiction, and the word 'powerless' starts to sound all too real.Many addicts want to use the excuse of genetics when they relapse. Yet, they remain in programs that are not dealing with physical problems. Even the word 'relapse' has come to sound like a normal step in the progression of recovery.You can't have it both ways. If you want to be 'powerless' I think you'd better have a good solid case of illness that is incurable. If the illness is such that it can be stopped via placebos, God, counseling, groups, inclusive, then I would say it is not something one is powerless over at all.

That's a good point. My sister has been in a recovery program for some time now, and it often disgusts me how they (addicts and counselors) remain focused in the problem for years while much of the addictive behaviour has to do with the environment the addicts are in when they leave counseling.Bad homes, poor neighborhoods, friends with addictions, many times no interests or hobbies, leaves people feeling trapped in a cycle that is only alleviated or dealt with in a group. I would love to see counseling take on a more whole-person approach, maybe have some field trips instead of the daily talks about drugs! Let people know there is more to life than the petty circles they are in, and give them confidence in other areas of life that can take hold and help them recover.My sis is going on four years of 'recovery' from an opiate addiction that lasted about two. Four years of medication, 3 train rides a week in the am, interfering with work schedules, and a counseling session to sit and talk about drugs with other addicts. She is quite obviously addicted to recovery, works with and socializes with other addicts. She has lost, IMO, all sense of being a self-sufficient individual outside of the group.I have no problem with the idea of relating to a group...but which group do you want to be a part of long-term?

Phat, of course I understand the Christian concept of being powerless over human nature without God. But we are talking about feeding an arguable theological tenet to your average drug addict. I am only telling you from personal experience that this is creating a situation where many people ARE NOT becoming suddenly God-fearing, but are sucking up this 'powerless' stuff, especially in conjunction with what they hear about having an 'addictive personality' and they are using it as an excuse to fail.The only possible thing I can tell you about any recovery program's efficacy is what I have seen first hand. I don't care about the woo-woo 'what it could do' in some one lucky case where the treatment is a 'match' for the addict. I do not currently know many who have made a complete and clear reversal, or have not picked up an alternate habit. The few people I can say have truly changed, did so in spite of AA.I would like to know upon what criteria you or Welch make addictions sinful. I am of the belief that they can be in some cases. But clearly, to me at least, someone needs to decide what they are treating! A biological condition, a sin, a bad habit, or an underlying cause? True there are some things which lead to a dependancy...curing a person of dependancy is just a bandage to the problem if the 'seeds' still persist in the mind. I would say that whether or not medications are prescribed for physical addiction, you can still continue to discuss the preventative counseling aspect.

Yep, it is usually a group that gets someone to try something the first time!

Well, Phat, I can say I have two of three types of cravings. I crave a drink, a smoke, a food, coffee, etc. I crave them out of the blue, and also after having indulged in a sampling.What do cravings have to do with addiction, really? I can give in to cravings and not be an addict. According to the best Catholic doctrine I can drink, smoke, probably do recreational drugs, gamble, whatever, and it is not sinful.An addiction very well may be. Your answer, Welch's really, is that we are not worshipping God correctly.OK. How is that? Ringo is partly on the money. First you have to determine what an addiction is. It is not merely a repetitive behaviour. It is a behaviour that is having serious negative consequences on a person's health or desired life style. The 'sin' aspect comes into play when a person believes that they were made to fulfill a purpose, to live a godly life, to be the best they can be. Many addictions rob a household of money that is sorely needed. This is strongly against 'do unto others'. Other addictions in the long or short term are basically lethal, which makes them akin to murder of self...suicide. An addict has to take stock of the damages, even if the addiciton is not harmful in the common usage, but gets in the way of who they want to be ideally, or who they feel God wants them to be.Forget about sin, Phat, throw it away. Believing something is a sin may only add more motive to give it up. Or...not.Point is, recovery comes down to self motivation, whether it be because of God, a group, the pure desire for a better life, the realization of hurting people, etc. What motivation 'works' for people? If you want to say the AA Christian motive works, fine. I think that the knowledge of God can help some people to replace their focus and feel capable. I am seriously curious what this does for those of us who already know God? Isn't the implication that we should never have given in to addiciton in the first place?What is really the deal is how far we take the biological aspect. If belief in God was not enough to prevent bad behaviour, not an occasional 'sin' but a total ignorance of what we stand for...then how do we believe some 12 steps will recoup us? If it is NOT because a person ignores their beliefs that they become addicts, then we have still to go to the 'addictive personality' route.IOW..."I am Christan, but something in my nature makes me desire alcohol against my deepest wishes'.Either this is true, and you need to have a type of couseling that deals with the physical part...or this is false, and you need to reevaluate your faith.