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Author | Topic: The philosophy behind The Twelve Steps | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Larni, haver you ever heard of dr.Patrick Carnes? He is nationally known as a sex addictions recovery expert, and he makes a valid and timely comment on how the recovery process works.
Currently, I am at day # 71 of a particular addiction(Carnes says that all addiction follow similar basic patterns and that recovery takes time due to the fact that the brain must reset itself and regrow healthier neural pathways...comments? )and according to Carnes I should begin dealing with a flood of unresolved feelings at roughly day 130 or so, and also health issues.
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frako Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Currently, I am at day # 71 of a particular addiction
Congrats hope you stay the course
(Carnes says that all addiction follow similar basic patterns and that recovery takes time due to the fact that the brain must reset itself and regrow healthier neural pathways...comments? ) Not all addictions cocaine addicts for example have one of the worst problems, when even after years just hearing the word can cause their brains to release endorphins giving you a slight high and craving for the drug. Edited by frako, : No reason given.
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Larni Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
I've not heard of him till now but he seems pretty in line with my take on addiction.
Behaviour causes emotion modulation.The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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Phat Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
I had to look this term up (largely so that I could have a conversation with you )
This is what I found: quote:Carnes says that after the 130 day mark, the recovering addict is hit with a flood of emotions...which were previously being suppressed and/or masked by the addiction. Personally, I had five years worth of audio daily reports(Diaries) in which I commented on the feelings and observations of the moment. Before sobriety I noted that I was suppressing emotions and was in a state of denial...knowing that I had to do something about the addiction yet unable to do so in the present moment...(hence the addiction). Later, after sobriety was achieved, I was able to be honest with myself for the first time in a long time. (jar used to comment that I seemed to prefer fantasy over reality...a kernel of truth) At any rate, reality now tells us that I have 72 days sober...and that at roughly day # 130 or so, the emotional tsunami will hit me. I hope to be able to report on it here.
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Phat Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
frako writes: Keyword: Slight cocaine addicts for example have one of the worst problems, when even after years just hearing the word can cause their brains to release endorphins giving you a slight high and craving for the drug. Triggers will occur, but there is a difference between feeling a trigger and shifting into the automatic addictive process which one is unable to reverse(kinda like getting too close to a black hole) The brain will reset itself after 130 days of sobriety, and after that the triggers and emotions will peak...but once a client gets through that, triggers alone will not cause relapses. Carnes did comment that relapse is more common in the 2nd six months of sobriety than it is in the 1st 6 months...for those who make the initial 130 days. Edited by Phat, : fixed
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frako Member Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Well i dont have any first hand experience to confirm or deny how slight it is i got that from a documentary on addiction.
The only real addiction i suffer from is smoking and i have no real desire to stop. Though i am building a fitness room should be finished today or tomorrow goto paint the walls and put in a carpet then i can start hauling the equipment in. Maby il fall in to some kind of fitness addiction and il stop smoking but i doubt it. P But sill i hope you stay the course whatever comes your way and the best of luck to you.
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Phat Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1
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Ironically I am again at Day 71...same as the longest period of sobriety i ever had in twenty years. (I relapsed soon after that post) What will be scary is the territory I'm about to experience. I already feel some deep deep pain,fear,depression, and anxiety.Day 130-Day 180 will be tough, according to experts. (For me that will be the period November 27th or so thru Christmas and climaxing in January and February 2017. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
frako 2013 writes: So did you ever finish that room? Do you use it? Hows the smoking coming along? Just curious... Though i am building a fitness room should be finished today or tomorrow go to paint the walls and put in a carpet then i can start hauling the equipment in. Maybe i'll fall in to some kind of fitness addiction and i'll stop smoking but i doubt it.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
concerning emotional regulation, would you agree with the hypothesis that sobriety as a necessary form of emotional (and physical) regulation allows neuro plasticity to change the brain back into a healthy state...thus avoiding built in triggers from having to fire?
This is Day #97 for me. I am a bit grumpy but overall confidant that I am on the right path.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Larni Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined:
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I would say so. You can literally build up your will power and any time you show restraint it generalises to restraint in other areas.
Also having a routine that does not involve engaging in addictive behaviour reduces the frequency we ruminate on engaging in addictive behaviour. It sounds like you are doing really well! All the best, mate. The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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Phat Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
This is day 124 of sobriety. I just received word from Safeway...m,y former employer...that they have rejected my Step 2 Grievance. This really hurt. I needed that job and the money and insurance that it provided. To be honest, at age 57 I feel I have earned this level of support, and to finally have it taken from me is embarrassing, painful, and normally unfair. The only reason I refuse to call it unfair is because I prayed about this, and trust that Gods will is done.
What I don't understand is why God wants me broke and needy after I have worked so hard to stay sober for the longest time in twenty years! Yes...I have been looking for other jobs, but there are none that give me what I had. I am going to my CR Group meeting tonight and will get my 120 day chip, which symbolically means a lot---as i know that scientifically i am healing---but I can honestly say that I am hurting right now.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1655 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Keep strong my friend and face the coming days knowing they will be darkest before the light. There will be a job, and the questions are
what kind of job do you want and where do you want it to be you've talked about getting into your church hierarchy, and perhaps this is the time. keep us posted <3by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Phat Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1
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Phat,Post 97 writes: What will be scary is the territory I'm about to experience. I already feel some deep deep pain,fear,depression, and anxiety.Day 130-Day 180 will be tough, according to experts. (For me that will be the period November 27th or so thru Christmas and climaxing in January and February 2017. Phat,Post 101 writes: This is day 124 of sobriety. I just received word from Safeway...m,y former employer...that they have rejected my Step 2 Grievance. This really hurt. I needed that job and the money and insurance that it provided. To be honest, at age 57 I feel I have earned this level of support, and to finally have it taken from me is embarrassing, painful, and normally unfair. The only reason I refuse to call it unfair is because I prayed about this, and trust that Gods will is done.What I don't understand is why God wants me broke and needy after I have worked so hard to stay sober for the longest time in twenty years! Yes...I have been looking for other jobs, but there are none that give me what I had. I am going to my CR Group meeting tonight and will get my 120 day chip, which symbolically means a lot---as i know that scientifically i am healing---but I can honestly say that I am hurting right now. Today is Day 159 and I got my job back this last week! I am trusting God still...now more than ever...though I still have many questions. I wont say that God made me sober yet I wont take all of the credit for myself either. It was and is an ongoing daily communion. Now that I have my job back fully restored with insurance and benefits, perhaps God wants to test me to see how strong I remain in my sobriety. The feelings and emotional awareness that I have now is stronger than at any time in the past. The experts say that this is a normal process of healing unresolved feelings and emotions that may well have accelerated the addiction in the first place many years ago. As of today--Friday December 23rd I am resolved..determined...and full of joy. May everyone at EvC have a Merry Christmas, or Happy Holidays with friends and family and a joyful New Year!Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9011 From: Canada Joined:
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Congratulations!
I am glad your Christmas is going to be more merry.
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Phat Member Posts: 18633 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
While most of my online diary is over at Addiction By Definition I found myself reading my older posts in this topic, started way back in 2007 with my first attempts at quitting. Although I'm now convinced that Recovery is more about healing the brain than it is about willpower, I realize that the psychology and the pharmacology go hand in hand. The brain needs time to heal. The decision to stay sober is more psychological. As I mentioned on Day 348, I almost relapsed but for the grace of God and realize that a lot of my future recovery hinges on mindfulness and awareness of personal responsibility. If I shoot myself in the foot, I cannot very well blame the gun!
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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