WHAT GOD THINKS OF FUNDEMENTALISM

More hogwash! Your OP implicates ALL male fundamentalists and their mothers and/or mothers of male fundamentalists that includes ALL Biblical fundamentalists. Revise your OP and stop calling me and the rest of us fundies "God damned......mother fuckers." Either you substantiate that hateful inflamitory statement which is BLATATANTLY AGAINST FORUM RULES or APOLOGIZE AND EDIT THE DAMDIBLE LIE OUT, and get over this evasive bable about buz being incoherant!<This message has been edited by buzsaw, 06-16-2004 10:12 PM

I thought Jesus came to serve and to set the captives free (Abrahams bosom?, the broken heart?, etc...), and we all want to serve him, when all he wants is for us to be about what he is about, loving ones neighbor, the brethren, the widow and the orphan as he loved(agapa love). I'm leaning that WT is talking about how were at times putting the cart ahead of the horse if there about serving the Lord, and neglect to love the unlovable. I mean if your serving Christ, then are your being about what Christ was about, and fullfilling his commandment, to love one another. It talks about if you WANT to be great, you become as a servant, it a humbling thing, putting God first, and loving your neighbor as Christ would, etc...To me loving is above theology, cause your about what God is about, but the world wants to put self first, so thats putting the cart ahead of the horse, I don't see a problem with fundementalism, if they have a servants heart for the Church(to be about what Christ is about), to love one another (the brethren and their neighbor)in the spirit of Christ, not as the world loves. If Christ is the head of the church and he came to heal the broken hearted, then if you forget about the brethren, to love the brethren, and ones neighbor, as he would love, then you might be putting your theology ahead of Christ, but suppose its easier, cause your so busy serving the Lord, but are your striving to be his friend, etc... Personally think if you want to be about what Christ is about, you you will love the brethren, your neighbor, cause this is putting self second, and God first. Now leaning if you say well I'm serving the Lord, but forget the brethren, and ones neighbor, that your not being about what the Lord is about. Then be careful that you don't overburden ones self, due to manipulation of people, so if you put your foot in ones mouth, don't sleep on whatever you agree kjv Proverbs 6:1-5, cause human nature will try to enslave you by your words, and Jesus said his burden is light (my interpretation of the wisdom of those verses), etc...P.S. It talks about the world loving their own (so if the world loves you then you must be doing something wrong, which makes me feel the fundementalists (Jerry Falwell, etc...) are doing something right, etc...), so think what this is all about is being about what Christ is about, then you will be a true Christian, cause he will then call you his friend and not his servant, he says his yoke is easy his burden light. Its all about what the law was about, loving God and ones neighbor as Christ loved, this too me is what in part they call the fruit of the spirit, etc...

Ditto!

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

Very well put, whatever.

This Mr Forum Fundie (buz) has been in scores of churches and Biblical fundamentalist Christian circles coast to coast in many states for 59 years now and have not been in one church or meeting that preached being saved by doing works of the law.WT, how old are you and how many Biblical fundamentalist churches and meetings have you been in so as to know what is being preached? They all preach salvation by faith in Jesus Christ and the receiving of him to reach Heaven and to get eternal life. They all teach that one becomes a new spiritual minded person by this "new birth" experience and that varying degrees of good works follow this experience, depending on the commitment of the person/believer. They all believe that one grows through the reading and nurturing of God's word, the Bible. Most teach that one does not loose that salvation by sin, but that as children of God there often comes the chastening/correcting of a loving Father who like our earthly fathers and mothers chasten/correct our children for their own good. WT, this is not bondslavement to the works of the law.WT, your whole hateful premise here is a meanspirited FORUM RULE BREAKING, malicious, damning, evil, blatantly false, inflamitory, obscene, damnable lie aimed at not only the good people who believe and follow the fundamentals of the Bible, but aimed also at the mothers in a vicious profane manner. IMO, if you name the name of Christ for yourself and if you have any concience of decency about yourself, you need to appologize, edit out the profanity aimed at all fundamentalists, including Christian, and our mothers and stop setting yourself up as almighty judge thinking puny little you can excommunicate anyone from Christ and his church or danm a fellow believer to hell!

This post is a rant against hate, yet it fails to ever evidence any hate except to assert that I am guilty of hate.The OP has a source (the Bible) and I clearly interpreted directly from it. This fact is completely ignored in that Trixie just foams at the mouth by screaming hate which is the trump card of the defeated when they cannot refute anything specific from the OP.Trixi's post also proves that she IS NOT against hate, I am the exception, as her unfounded hatred against me will manifest even if she has to defend the Fundementalists - persons she hated up until this topic.Trixie's post is a clear violation of Forum rules - a personal attack without any substance to position.

In a previous message, I quipped that Willow is taking the word "curse" totally out of context by saying that the last word printed in the Hebrew Bible conveys negativity, or as he puts it, "eternal death." In the message, I said, "The verse is upbeat, and not anything remotely related to Willow's take on it."In Message 84, Willow responds, "The word we are talking about is 'curse'. There is nothing 'upbeat' as you say about the verse or the word."WRONG!To demonstrate my point, I paste the pertinent verses as follows:(Malachi 4:6) "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD."(4:6) "He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse."Sounds like good news at least for "the fathers and their children." But I am not qualified and will not attempt to interpret prophesy here. Actually, I just want to point out the following:1) Willow appears to want to use jots and tiddles of verse, intermeshed with boxcar loads of wacky ideas to substantiate a bizarre form of Christianity and bash divergent or opposing secular theories or theological beliefs. It's a bogus, sad, and common tactic.2) There is "good news" found in places other than "Paul's Gospel" and that point can be witnessed in the optomistic verses of Malachi, Chapter 4 (among many, many other writings contained within the Hebrew Bible).Peace. Ab.

Your OP is as filled with hate as the topic is stupid.You have started a thread that has no other purpose than to criticize and condemn others. In addition, you continually quote from the bigot Scott as a source.This thread was started to criticize others because of their beliefs. While it is acceptable to discuss differences of opinion when it comes to things like religion, it is not in good taste to make absurd statements, particularly using foul language, in the manner you do regularly.Second, you say... You admit that YOU are interpreting the Bible.That is you WILLOWTREE. Not even the infamous Dr. Scott.So don't go whining to the mods for protection. You have acted as a bore and buffoon. It's time to develop a small amount of maturity and apologize to the fundamentalists that are members and to the board in general.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I argued directly from a source and ripped the heresy and doctrinal error of Fundementalism. There is no Forum Rule violation.My interpretation of scripture has you exposed and in a state of humiliation. This means the arguments of Paul in Galatians has cut you to the heart.Now you are pandering for an Admin intrusion to rescue your ego and salvage some face.All you have to do Buzsaw is flood the debate with the twisted Fundie interpretation of Galatians and wait for all the people who hated you up until this topic to crown you the winner.The Fundementalists, best typified by Buzsaw, have completely voided and perverted the gospel. God is hysterically angry, this is why He inspired Paul to interpret Genesis 21:10 the way he did. The OP was dedicated, in much, in establishing that Protestants accept the Bible to be the eternal word of God. I substantiated this fact for the benefit of persons who do not understand this fact. This fact, that the Bible is the eternal word of God MEANS His word must and will always be applicable to every generation. I used this source and made a interpretation that clearly condemns Fundemenatlism - which means God condemns Fundementalism - WHY ? Because the ONLY thing that can save anyone from the sentence of hell eternal is being voided by the established church world by their traditions of heresy. A church world that is supposed to be on God's side.You think God is fooling around ? Galatians and Acts PROVES He aint. The heresy of every established religious community is to re-embrace their version of Mosaic law which immediately voids the gospel/way of faith to connect with God. The Reformation message was: Faith Alone.You are a God-damn mother flupping pervert says God in Galatians. I showed everyone what the Bible says and NOBODY has the integrity to embrace it.Your only hope Buzsaw is for an Admin intrusion and for other members to flood this topic with evil politically correct accusations of hate.EvC member Wm Anderson is debating and disagreeing with me, why can't any of you do the same like him ?You've finally been put in your place Buzsaw by another theist from the Bible and this ugly fact is the real reason why you are upset.

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1) Willow appears to want to use jots and tiddles of verse, intermeshed with boxcar loads of wacky ideas to substantiate a bizarre form of Christianity and bash divergent or opposing secular theories or theological beliefs. It's a bogus, sad, and common tactic.

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What is wacky about my interpertation of "curse" ?I said the curse is death eternal - how is this wacky ?Show me where I "bashed" anything ?You said "bashed" now prove it or change what you said.

I've read the last couple of pages and message one. Isn't this just the Catholic's versus the Protestants?If it is, there's always going to be fighting. It's a flame thrower job, - Remember Ireland?

Not the Catholics verses Protestants, It is Willowtree & Dr. Scott verses anyone who does not agree with them.

Prophet Willow's Almighty Word: "The last word in the O.T. is the word 'curse.' This means NOBODY ever kept all the words of the law(Deut.27:26), therefore everyone is under the curse of the penalty of the law which is death. Death is everywhere in the O.T."Again, read Malachi 4:5-6, (the "last words" of the Right Reverend Willow's "Old Testament"): "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse."Does that sound like "God's curse of eternal death for the Hebrews?" Nah, not really. Of course you gotta be able to read, Reverend Willow.And now, Rabbi Willow's Almighty Commentary: "The entire O.T. is a record of man failing miserably under law (may I recommend Ecclesiastes and the Song of Soloman, Rabbi Willow?) which repeats its penalty of the curse of death as the very last thought of God via His prophet Malachi."Again, Right Rev., there is no curse of death conveyed in the last few words of Malachi 4:6. But again, one must be able to read. Maybe it was that intense flash of light that blinded Paul and his most arduous followers ...

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Buzsaw: This Mr Forum Fundie (buz) has been in scores of churches and Biblical fundamentalist Christian circles coast to coast in many states for 59 years now and have not been in one church or meeting that preached being saved by doing works of the law.

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FROM THE OP: All evangelical Protestantism agrees that an act of faith directed at Christ gets you saved. The dispute with the established church begins right here. After conversion, the church at Jerusalem/established religious community/Fundementalists insist that keeping Law maintains your salvation. This is pure heresy.

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My excerpt from the OP AGREES with the statement of Buzsaw that I cut and pasted.ALL Protestant christianity agrees that faith and faith alone directed at Christ is what saves.This means that Buzsaw is "misunderstanding" or even worse intentionally misrepresenting what I said in the OP.

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Buzsaw: They all preach salvation by faith in Jesus Christ and the receiving of him to reach Heaven and to get eternal life. They all teach that one becomes a new spiritual minded person by this "new birth" experience and that varying degrees of good works follow this experience, depending on the commitment of the person/believer.

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This is the exact heresy of perverting the gospel.We both agree faith starts the journey.The perversion of faith/gospel comes in this instruction to perform "good works" as proof of the "new birth".NO - the way a person continues after conversion is the same way they started - faith.Galatians 3:1,2:

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"Receive ye the Spirit and miracles by the works of the law OR the hearing of faith ?"This is rhetorical !Fundies immediately poison a new convert by changing the focus of their attention onto works and law conformity INSTEAD of admonishing to continue with Christ by the way they started - faith.I am not arguing against law or good works or a righteous standard. I am protesting against HOW these goals are to be met. IF you continue by faith God will DELIVER you from even wanting to violate His righteous standard. You won't be perfect but you will be more perfect and the power that does the changing is the Spirit and the Spirit only operates when we are acting in faith - not when we try to conform to law via willpower.As to your last paragraph of ranting nonsense:I interpreted directly from the Bible. The interpretation drills you with precision and all you can do is retreat into politically correct accusations of hate which is a non sequitor, and every honest and intelligent person knows this.

WT, you continue your lies. I plainly stated that none of these churches I've been in "insist that keeping law maintains your salvation." The NT plainly and repeatedly teaches that Christianity and the new spiritual birth via the Holy Spirit makes a better person and it lists the fruit of the Spirit which changes that person for the better. As I also said, some have a greater change than others. The apostle Paul said, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." None of this is to maintain salvation. It is the result of salvation. If you show little change after salvation with few good works, you have less rewards when the awards are haned out by judge Jesus. Now, I suppose you're going to get right at changing your OP to "some fundamentalist; not all" require works to keep saved and I suppose you're going to edit that you're not going to send all fundamentalists to hell and that not all fundies bed their mothers. Another lie: Where did I use the word "proof?" Who has to prove anything by works. The fact is that the Holy Spirit effects an undeterminate amount of good works and fruit in born again Christians. God and his son Jesus will be the judge as to who is genuinely saved and born again. Neither you, I nor anyone else has that power, nor do you, who thinks of yourself as so high and mighty have the right as a Christian to excommunicate or damn and insult anyone nor anyone's mother. This is what we Biblical fundamentalists teach and believe. You had better get it right before maligning us the way you do. Another blatant lie. Most Biblical fundamentalists instruct Christians to maintain good works as the apostles have done over and over in the NT. They teach this to make them better Christians and children of God, not to maintain salvation. That is by faith and we all keep on keeping on teaching living by faith and continuing to grow via the word.Btw, when are you going to quote chapter and verse which teaches Biblical fundamentals cause males who believe and follow those fundamentals to bed their mothers and vise versa? Hmmm?I feel sorry for you, man. You have a very arrogant and anti-Christian hatred for fellow Christians who your think you can damn to hell and insult. That's sick!!Another commandment of Jesus you should ponder: He said, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another. By this shall all men know that you are my desciples." Please understand, WT, I'm not quoting this so as to keep you saved. I'm quoting it so as for you to become a better Christian and get over this bad and condescending attitude of yours towards the rest of us, some of us who teach and follow the Biblical fundamentals, known as Biblical fundamentalists.