Would you want to know?

Everyone has lied at sometime in their life. As Jesus was a someone then, logically speaking, He must have lied at some stage of His life.Brian.

Jesus was not just another person, however....according to my belief.IF I found out that Jesus had lied at some point in His life, it would disturb me.How can we be empowered to live godly lives if God incarnate did'nt?

But we know so little about His life, apart from the nativity, then a brief mention of an event when He was 12 years old, there's nothing until He is 30. Lots of time to tell lies.If Jesus was fully human then He would have lied at some stage of His life, if He didn't then He wasn't fully human.Not wishing to drag this OT, but if we can trust that the Gospels accurately report Jesus' words, then there is ample evidence in the Gospels of Jesus lying.Brian.

Keyword: creationists IF through Jesus all things were created, that too would make Him a bit different from human. Tradition explains it by saying that Jesus was (and is) fully human and also fully God. And if we can't fully trust the Gospels, we have no idea of Jesus character...aside from our internal impressions.I maintain that Woodsys O.P. should state that if some people could find out that there were no God....Because I don't see the fact being a universal absolute. What IF scenarios force a suspension of disbelief upon us. Yet unless we wish to take Woodsys What IF scenario at face value, 3727 EvC members are not going to collectively agree that God is unprovable or that He is provable.Consensus is the keyword. Not off topic at all!

I didn't suppose that was your intention but when asking whether a statement is logical one needs the statement. No harm done The intention was to attempt to point out that my knowing God exists shouldn't cause people to fly into a flurry. My knowing doesn't necessarily mean God actually does exist. Knowing something may be the highest court in the land but that doesn't mean there aren't other lands whose courts trump ours. I gave some of them: me being deluded - that court trumps my knowing: I know within a bubble, the skin of which is delusion. Outside that bubble is reality. That doesn't affect my knowing though. Or the reality we suppose to be is not actually the reality that is. That is another court which trumps our own. There may be more exclusions but I can't think of them. Assume I am not lying of course.But if none of these factor in and knowing is the very highest court of all - then my knowing means he does. And logically the same goes for pink unicornists. The logic only takes us so far. Everyone must decide on whether those factors apply in a way that satisfies themselves. I don't think I know. I know. Then I, in effect, publish what I know in claiming what I claim. The objectivity of it isn't diminished in the least by nobody believing me no more that the objectivity of whatever you thought for those three seconds affects the objectivity that that is what you thought All knowledge in internal knowledge in the first instance. Where else can something be known but internally. External is a derivative of internal. If we take what we see, smell or hear as being external it is only because we have, internally, made the assumption that it is indeed external. We automatically and internally assume the external reality to be there (ie: we trust our sensors to be picking up something that is in fact there). But it is only an assumption - there is no proof for it.So when God comes a knocking it is to command central he must go. There is no advantage in coming first through external to internal if internal is where knowledge exists in the first place 9if it does at all - Zorg might be getting called to his dinner and is about to switch off his PSII )Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Doesn't matter as long as you serve Him.Examples:

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Exodus 1: 15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah, 16 "When you help the Hebrew women in childbirth and observe them on the delivery stool, if it is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live." 17 The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live. 18 Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, "Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?" 19 The midwives answered Pharaoh, "Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive." 20 So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous. 21 And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own.

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Joshua: 2:2The king of Jericho was told, "Look! Some of the Israelites have come here tonight to spy out the land." 3 So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab: "Bring out the men who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy out the whole land." 4 But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said, "Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. 5 At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, the men left. I don't know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them." 6 (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.) 7 So the men set out in pursuit of the spies on the road that leads to the fords of the Jordan, and as soon as the pursuers had gone out, the gate was shut....
...Joshua 6:16 The seventh time around, when the priests sounded the trumpet blast, Joshua commanded the people, "Shout! For the LORD has given you the city! 17 The city and all that is in it are to be devoted to the LORD. Only Rahab the prostitute and all who are with her in her house shall be spared, because she hid the spies we sent.

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Both instances of people being rewarded because they lied for God.Biblical example => It's ok to do it now.

dwise1: There's no question the preoccupation of fundamentalists with warfare scenarios and end-time fantasies has had a corrosive effect on ethics.Fundamentalists will usually agree that 'normally' Christians should behave in honest, ethical, and charitable ways--the kind of behavior one associates with the word 'godly.' But they do not believe these are normal times. We stand at the end of history and it is God's army versus Satan's army. A life-or-death struggle with the Antichrist is in progress.And all is fair, you know.It becomes okay to lie. After all, the enemy is lying and Christians have to beat the enemy. Dishonesty is not a moral failing, just strategy. It becomes okay to steal. After all, resources in enemy hands only advance the Devil's work, whereas resources in Christians' hands will advance the cause of Christ. It becomes okay to neglect the poor. After all, the rapture is coming next Tuesday after lunch, so why bother trying to ameliorate world hunger? We'd barely get started.The warfare mindset has much to do with the widespread moral collapse of fundamentalism.When a state of emergency exists, the normal rules do not apply._Edited by Archer Opterix, : HTML.

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

This thing about delusion.If I know God exists on account of my being deluded then what is happening, in effect, is that I know he does from my position in a bubble of deluded reality. Within that 'reality' I know whatever it is I know. The bubble has a skin and outside that skin there is something else in fact. That which everyone calls 'reality'. Real reality - not deluded realityBut we aren't in a very different position than the deluded person is. That person doesn't see their reality as being a bubble - they see the skin of the bubble they are in as infinitely thick - there is nothing beyond it. When we look at the skin of our own reality we cannot say whether there is anything beyond it. It could be a thin-skinned bubble or the skin could be infinitely thick - there being nothing beyond it. What we can now say is that a deluded person lives inside a thin-skinned bubble within a bubble of skin thickness we know not.If we are indeed living in a thin skinned bubble, then we are ourselves deluded after a fashion. Another reality would exist outside of our own bubble but from our position all we see is a world which appears as rational to us as does the world of a deluded persons to them. But it is a delusion nonetheless. The fact that our sense of objective reality has no means to demonstrate its objectivity means we cannot comment one way or the other on our bubbles skin thickness.If in fact we operate in some kind of bubble, then God can be the reality outside it. And if he pricks that bubble for someone and the bubble bursts then, as with the world of the deluded whose deluded bubble has been burst by whatever means, so too do we get to see a new reality.You knowing there is a computer screen in front of you is consistant with the reality you live in. Within that you can know this without attaching any reservation or limit. You simply know. My knowing God exists is consistant with the reality I now live in. I can know it too without reservation.The question is who is the deluded one? Is it you looking at me in a bubble of delusion or me looking at you in a bubble of delusion.Let me say one other thing:When a deluded persons bubble is burst it doesn't mean all aspects of the reality they lived in disappear. They might have thought they were Napolean - but they at least thought they were person. What happens is that their reality gets tuned up to a truer pitch.Similarily, when God bursts a deluded persons bubble not all of the current reality dissappears. The computer screen still exists as it ever did. We are just tuned to a truer pitchAnd once the pitch has been set, the conductor begins conducting your life. Edited by iano, : No reason given.

You only BELIEVE that you know God exists.Brian.

Yes it's right to lie to protect people from being murdered, infants or God's soldiers in enemy territory. It's not just OK, it is the moral thing to do.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

And it is equally okay for God to order His soldiers to slaughter innocent women and children?Joshua 6:21They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it”men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.

According to you. You are simply defining human in terms of our fallen nature. Human = sinners in your thinking. But the Bible reveals that that is not our fundamental nature. Our fundamental nature is the image of God. Jesus was the true human being without sin. No sin whatever. Not one lie. We lie, he didn't. There is no Christianity at all without that basic truth.

You bet. God warns of such judgments and then He brings them. We ought to be paying attention. There is no such thing as an innocent human being from the perspective of God and such an act is His judgment against them. That is clear from scripture. The message one SHOULD get from that, all you who proudly get morally indignant against God, is that the same judgment, in one form or another, in this life and/or the next, is coming to ALL human beings because we all sin -- all those who reject God's offer of safety from it that is.Since someone is going to think I'm justifying human-originated acts of this sort, far from it. That's God's prerogative only.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

We hardly know anything about Jesus' life.If He was fully human then He lied, simple logic.How do you know He didn't lie to a friend when He was 7 years old?If Jesus was human then He had to have all our faults, if not, how else could He appreciate our position?As you said in a previous post, it is okay to lie for the cause, so when God lied then techinically speaking Jesus lied too.But, we don't know enough about His life to know where exactly He did lie, we don't even kno for sure if the Gospels are an accurate record of His words.Brian.

Huh? How do you figure that then