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Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
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Author | Topic: the book of job, and an unjust god | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Coragyps Member (Idle past 762 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
The Amalekites could have repented and asked God for forgiveness.
The Amalekites, though, had only their enemies' word that this particular god even existed, and this particular god claimed (or was claimed, rather) to be the god of the Israelites, not the Amalekites. Do you follow the commands of Zeus or of Chango, dpardo? Aren't you afraid of them zapping your kids? I thought not. This message has been edited by Coragyps, 12-22-2004 01:29 PM
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
How long did it take you to figure out that the children of the parents you slayed would someday avenge themselves of you? So we should kill people for what they might do someday?
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berberry Inactive Member |
dpardo writes:
quote: But you said the parents were guilty of all sorts of wickedness. The children weren't. There are all sorts of accomodations that God could make for the children but instead he chooses to order them mercilessly slaughtered. Why couldn't God just "miracle" the little kids minds to not remember Amalek? Why was it necessary to slaughter them? They were innocent. There is no justification for killing innocents. Period. Keep America Safe AND Free!
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 762 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
So we should kill people for what they might do someday?
If it's US foreign policy, shouldn't it be good enough for you, too, Dan? [/sarcasm]
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Coragyps writes: The Amalekites, though, had only their enemies' word that this particular god even existed, and this particular god claimed (or was claimed, rather) to be the god of the Israelites, not the Amalekites. Do you follow the commands of Zeus or of Chango, dpardo? Aren't you afraid of them zapping your kids? All of the people knew of God, they simply choose not to obey. They created their own Gods. Remember all of these people are descendents of Noah. One of the most telling scriptures of God revealing himself to these heathen nations is 2Kings 18:17-25:
17 And the king of Assyria sent Tartan and Rabsaris and Rabshakeh from Lachish to king Hezekiah with a great host against Jerusalem. And they went up and came to Jerusalem. And when they were come up, they came and stood by the conduit of the upper pool, which is in the highway of the fuller's field.
18 And when they had called to the king, there came out to them Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, which was over the household, and Shebna the scribe, and Joah the son of Asaph the recorder. 19 And Rabshakeh said unto them, Speak ye now to Hezekiah, Thus saith the great king, the king of Assyria, What confidence is this wherein thou trustest? 20 Thou sayest, (but they are but vain words,) I have counsel and strength for the war. Now on whom dost thou trust, that thou rebellest against me? 21 Now, behold, thou trustest upon the staff of this bruised reed, even upon Egypt, on which if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it: so is Pharaoh king of Egypt unto all that trust on him. 22 But if ye say unto me, We trust in the LORD our God: is not that he, whose high places and whose altars Hezekiah hath taken away, and hath said to Judah and Jerusalem, Ye shall worship before this altar in Jerusalem? 23 Now therefore, I pray thee, give pledges to my lord the king of Assyria, and I will deliver thee two thousand horses, if thou be able on thy part to set riders upon them. 24 How then wilt thou turn away the face of one captain of the least of my master's servants, and put thy trust on Egypt for chariots and for horsemen? 25 Am I now come up without the LORD against this place to destroy it? The LORD said to me, Go up against this land, and destroy it.
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Dan Carroll writes: So we should kill people for what they might do someday? What is the context of what occurred?
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berberry Inactive Member |
dpardo writes Coragyps:
quote: Irrelevant. Any religion can invent a flood story to make it seem that all of mankind is desended from its own Noah character. Keep America Safe AND Free!
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Berberry writes: Why couldn't God just "miracle" the little kids minds to not remember Amalek? Why was it necessary to slaughter them? I suppose it's possible that God could have. However, we, unlike God, have not considered all the ramifications of all of the other possibilities. Wouldn't the mere mention of brainwashing and then continually hiding the truth from these children be yet another can of worms for other atheists to hack at?
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berberry Inactive Member |
quote: Perhaps, but it wouldn't be as bad as slaughtering innocents. Besides, I'm talking about one quick miracle to erase the memory of Amalek. No brainwashing required, just a quick little miracle. Keep America Safe AND Free!
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Berberry writes: Irrelevant. Any religion can invent a flood story to make it seem that all of mankind is desended from its own Noah character. In the middle of a debate of a Biblical account, in which you have been participating, you are going to question the veracity of the Bible? How can you even participate in this discussion? edit: Changed the word "information" to "Bible" in the first sentence to make it clearer. This message has been edited by dpardo, 12-22-2004 02:19 PM
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berberry Inactive Member |
dpardo asks:
quote: Yes, I always question the veracity of the bible but that's beside the point. We are discussing whether God, as he is presented to us in the bible, is just. This question lies outside the question of the bible's veracity. It is also outside the question of what other religions believe, something you were commenting on and to which I responded. Keep America Safe AND Free!
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dpardo Inactive Member |
One of the great things about the bible is that it tells all of these details that we have been discussing.
Some of the great characters of the bible that did things that we admire them for also did some things that were wrong and shameful- David's sin against Uriah, for example. The bible doesn't hide these things. The bible does show God's providence in all of these things though.
Regardless of one's view of God, one thing cannot be argued. No matter how much we try to ignore it or deny it, God allows sin, suffering, warfare and death. The Bible itself is full of the same, and that is one of the reasons it is accepted as history, because its record is honest and plausible regarding man's imperfection. Attempts to make the Bible more palatable by "toning down" the judgments of God against other nations, the conducting of aggressive warfare against the Canaanites, and God's occasional strong hand against his own people are simply wishful thinking. It is easier to accept the God of the Bible, because of what we see around us, than to believe that God is like a kindly old grandfather that would never get angry or have harsh words. Randall Waters This message has been edited by dpardo, 12-22-2004 02:36 PM
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
dpardo
How long did it take you to figure out that the children of the parents you slayed would someday avenge themselves of you? Guess the Amelekites should not have shown mercy and slaughtered the whole lot eh? Pity that they should make such a mistake.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
What is the context of what occurred? There is a baby, totally innocent of any wrongdoing. It's your choice whether or not you kill it.
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dpardo Inactive Member |
Sidelined writes: Guess the Amelekites should not have shown mercy and slaughtered the whole lot eh? Pity that they should make such a mistake. Their first mistake was attacking God's people. BTW, the Amalekites didn't show mercy.
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