Jesus Was Not A Sacrifice To Forgive Sins

Well,
Assuming he existed, he could have been1) A preacher caught up in the political intrige of the Romans vs the Jewish population.2) A failed messiah3) Totally misunderstood by the people who wrote about him in the Gospels.Remember, to the Jewish population, the messiah was going to be
a spiritual/military leader who frees them forgien occupation, and
establishes a time of peace, prosperity and Torah as the acknowledged
path to God, and the scattered jews brought home to Israel. The Messiah was not going to be an incarnation of God.Also, to the Jewish population, God had promised NEVER to need a human scrafice again (as a promise to Abraham, by supplying the ram to sacrifice, instead of his son).

Of course, the whole concept of origianl sin is very pagan, and comes from the misreading of Paul's concepts by Saint Augustine.So, let's look at the concept as you have declared it.God makes Mankind, puts him/her in a garden totally ignorante of consequences, and set man up to disobey him. He then kicks him out of
the guarden so he would not live forever after the sting operation.Man follows gods commandment, and multiples and covers the earth, but pisses God off, so God deciedes to start over again with a small group, and kills everyone else off.God then sends down himself, as himself, so he can sacrifice himself to himself so that he can lift the curse of death and let everyone who
knows the secret magic words to live forever. amen.Doesn't sound too reasonable to me.

Well, in the Jewish tradition, there was sacrifice for asking god for being forgiven, and also sacrifices to thank god for when things are going good.

Assuming your assertion is true, the people who wrote and read the bible are bond by time, and the bible is not for god, but for them. The bible is to make sense to the people who read it, and wrote it.

So, you are saying that you do not believe that Jesus is God?Or, are you being a polytheist???Because if Jesus is just an aspect of God (the aspect of the son), then my point stands.If you think that Jesus is god, but not the trinity is not one god, then you are a polythiest.Which one?

Actually, If you bother to read Isaiah 53 IN CONTEXT, you will see that Isaiah is specifically speaking about the nation of Israel, in THAT time, not somebody getting born 600 years plus in the future.As for psalm 22, that is a purposeful mistranslation, and also it was "retrofitted" into being a prophecy that it was not meant to be.More information about psalm 22 can be foundhttp://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq057.html

That was nice avoidance of the question.Is Jesus part of the 'godhead' (i.e. trinty), or is Jesus a seperate god, or is jesus just 'the son of god', but not god?In any case, if you consider Jesus not part of 'God', (which makes you very non-mainstream), the statement could be modified to show that is still as rediculous as what I said previously.

It doesn't seem like people who profess themselves to be christian can agree on who Jesus is.When you get a concensus, come back to me.

Ok. you reject the concept of the trinity, and the concept that Jesus is God.So, modify my original statement to say 'God sent his son down to earth to seriously inconvinence him for three days so everyone can live forever' in my previous rant.

Then, my original statement stands..The Christian concept says God sent himself down to earth as his own son to sacrifice himself to himself, to save the world from himself.

If you want to call that a rebutel. Most of that mismsah is one giant
rationalistion, and does not address the issues Thomas Paine brought up at all, but rather made strawmans arguements, twists of logic, and attacked Paine personally...

So, can you answer in ONE simple word, yes or no.Is Jesus God.The concept of the trinity says he is.You reiterated the concept of the trinity.So, Yes, what I said stands.. .. of course the whole concept of the Trinity is certianly not from Jesus.

So, can you answer in ONE simple word, yes or no.Is Jesus God.The concept of the trinity says he is.You reiterated the concept of the trinity.So, Yes, what I said stands.. .. of course the whole concept of the Trinity is certianly not from Jesus.I don't consider Carm to be mainstream.. they definately are on the fringe... and often seem to be more interested in bashing other Christian groups than anything else.

Come on now, it is very typical of the Jewish writing of the timeperiod to refer to Israel as a person, and a servent. Read it in context.That is the trouble with Christians who claim Isaiah 53 refers to Jesus, they don't read the context.

Of course, the famous mistranslation of Psalm 22."They pierced my hands and my feet" is an incorrect translation. The phrase "k'ari" is "like a lion" -- i.e. "a band of evildoers has surrounded me, like a lion, (at) my hands and feet," and indeed, lions are mentioned elsewhere in that Psalm.