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Author Topic:   Jesus Was Not A Sacrifice To Forgive Sins
Aurelie
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 150 (136367)
08-23-2004 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by purpledawn
08-19-2004 9:40 AM


God displeased with sacrifice?
I must apologize for this entry being overdue but I was out of town when this topic was finally released.
In order to hold the belief that God didn't approve of sacrifices, you would also have to believe that the Bible contradicts itself. With the amount of Scripture given regarding how to perform sacrifices (Exodus 27:1-8; 29:38-46; 30:1-10; 38:1-17; Leviticus 1-9; 16; Numbers 15:1-31; 28; 29 etc... etc...) it's hard to see how one can come to the conclusion that God didn't require sacrifices.
You quoted Isaiah 1:1, 11-17 placing special emphasis on verses 11 and 17.
quote:
I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he-goats... Learn to do well; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
In order to comprehend the meaning of these texts, it is imperative that one notices the context in which it is written. At the time when Isaiah had this vision, the Israelites had began to neglect God. Indication of this is given in verses 3 and 4:
quote:
The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
The Israelites weren't obeying the word of the Lord, therefore, He said in verse 11:
quote:
To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
He's asking them, what pupose is it to offer sacrifices when you're not even trying to obey me, when you willfully sin against me, why are you asking for my pardon? He said that He was full (or as some often say, sick and tired) of the offerings, that were rendered meaningless by their actions. He no longer delighted in it. He prefers to have obedience than sacrifice, as He says in 1 Samuel 15:22:
quote:
And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
As far as in verse 17, you're right, we are to help others. Notice, though, that verse 17 comes after verse 16, in which, He is encouraging them to stop their evil ways:
quote:
Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
And then comes verse 17:
quote:
Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Looking at Isaiah 66:3:
quote:
He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
As if is always used to anticipate a metaphore. Therefore, we can conclude that God is speaking metaphorically.
GOD REQUIRED:
THEY OFFERED: THEIR OWN WAYS/ ABOMINATIONS
Ox (Deut. 18:3) AS IF Slew a man
Lamb (Lev. 14:12) AS IF Cut a dog's neck
Oblation (Lev. 3:1) AS IF Offered (unclean) swine's blood
Incense (Ex. 30:7) AS IF Blessed an idol
Whether God required an ox, lamb, oblation or incense, the people did it as if they slew a man, cut a dog's neck, offered unclean swine (Lev. 11:7), or blessed an idol. They did it with an unrepentant spirit. Instead of using the time of offering to be honestly repentant, they looked forward to it as a game.
Isaiah 66:4 shows that once again, God had been displeased by their formalism:
quote:
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
In reference to Jeremiah 7:22; once again, the same principle is applicable. By reading Jeremiah 7:8-10, 19-21; 24-30 you see where God is displeased with them. God would rather have obedience than sacrifice. He didn't command them to offer sacrifices just to be offering sacrifices but rather as an atonement for sin. He would rather have them obey than offer sacrifices, Jeremiah 7:23:
quote:
But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
You said:
quote:
Jeremiah 7:24 ... says that they went backward and not forward. So even from God viewpoint they should have matured away from sacrifices and hadn't.
Absolutely... not. In fact, in reading the verse it explains why He says that they went backward and not forward. It was because they "hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart", hence they went backward and not foward. God would rather have His people obey than offer sacrifices and meaninglessly go through the forms of a religion. A true-hearted Christian is what God wants.
In regard to Jeremiah 8:7-8, it does not say that they were tampering with God's word. No one needs to doubt about this. God was the one speaking in Jeremiah 8:7, which says:
quote:
Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.
But , in Jeremiah 8:8, God is asking them how they were able to say the things which they did. He was quoting them :
quote:
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
Moving right along... past all of the verses taken out of context
quote:
The only real atonement for sin seems to be for us to request forgiveness from the one we have sinned against and make restitution.
That is a way to show your sorrow for your sin, but without the blood of Christ, there can be no atonement for our sins. (Heb. 9:22)
quote:
I have yet to find any true messianic prophecy that claims any annointed one was to die so that God would forgive the sins of humanity.
Have you read Isaiah 53 or Psalms 22? Both of those are prophecies of the coming Messiah that had to die to save His people.

Whenever people agree with me, I always feel that I must be wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by purpledawn, posted 08-19-2004 9:40 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by ramoss, posted 08-23-2004 9:31 PM Aurelie has replied
 Message 113 by purpledawn, posted 09-04-2004 1:28 PM Aurelie has not replied

  
Aurelie
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 150 (136602)
08-24-2004 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by ramoss
08-23-2004 9:31 PM


Re: God displeased with sacrifice?
Perhaps I'm missing something but I don't see how that could be talking about the nation of Israel, verses 4-9 especially.

Whenever people agree with me, I always feel that I must be wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by ramoss, posted 08-23-2004 9:31 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by lfen, posted 08-24-2004 4:35 PM Aurelie has not replied

  
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