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Author Topic:   Jesus Was Not A Sacrifice To Forgive Sins
Droxyn
Inactive Member


Message 131 of 150 (184502)
02-10-2005 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by purpledawn
12-14-2004 9:23 AM


Re: Not a Sacrifice for Sins of Mankind
Hi all, Newbie here. I've done a lot of reading but no posting till now. What the heck, I'll take a stab @ purpledawns criteria. This is kind of an old thread so I hope I'm not wasting my time.
Animal sacrifices for sin existed before the first temple
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. I admit that this is not a specific reference to the type of sacrificing that is being discussed. It is interesting at least to note though that Adam and Eve had sinned and so were naked. God sort of "covered" that sin with coats of skins. Did some animal have to die to provide those skins or did God just conjour them up? Anyway, It seems like Lev 1:1-4 says that the sacrifice will be an atonement for sins.
{H3722

kâphar
kaw-far'
A primitive root; to cover (specifically with bitumen); figuratively to expiate or condone, to placate or cancel: - appease, make (an) atonement, cleanse, disannul, forgive, be merciful, pacify, pardon, to pitch, purge (away), put off, (make) reconcile (-liation).}
Lev 4:24 mentions that the burnt offering before the Lord is a sin offering. I'll leave it at that I guess.
Animal sacrifice atoned for all sins.
Not sure what you mean here. No one animal sacrifice atoned for all sins for all time. That is why they had to keep doing it all the time. I guess I'm not sure why animal sacrifices in the OT would have to atone for all sins in order for Christ to be an atonement sacrifice for mankind. If you could maybe please elaborate a bit I will attempt a comment.
It's probably a foul and doesn't count but it seems pretty clear that the NT writers understood the sacrifices of the OT to be a "pointing forward" to the coming Christ. This could have been a convenient way to further their new religion. Jesus was quoted as saying (essentially) that the scriptures spoke of Him. Again could just be inserted by the Gospel writers.
Maybe on a more relevant note, it is interesting in the whole Abraham-Isaac ordeal in Gen 22:8 Abraham says:
"My son, God will provide HIMSELF a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together."
I though it to be an interesting play on words there. Depends on where you put the emphasis.
I'll wait on your clarification for more comment.
One more passage:
Lev 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
Lev 16:31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.
Lev 16:32 And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest's office in his father's stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments:
Lev 16:33 And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation.
Lev 16:34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.
Without sacrifice atonement was not possible
... well nuts, I've run outta time. Umm, if someone actually responds to the post then I shall continue my search... I probably will anyway. Later all!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by purpledawn, posted 12-14-2004 9:23 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by purpledawn, posted 02-11-2005 7:18 AM Droxyn has replied
 Message 133 by ramoss, posted 02-11-2005 9:00 AM Droxyn has not replied
 Message 139 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-05-2005 12:32 PM Droxyn has not replied

  
Droxyn
Inactive Member


Message 134 of 150 (184544)
02-11-2005 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by purpledawn
02-11-2005 7:18 AM


Re: Not a Sacrifice for Sins of Mankind
My apologies of course. I did start to read the thread in its entirety... got bored and just went to the end. Wont happen again. Intersting topic, I learned a few things. After reading a 9 page thread at one sitting my eyes are killing me and I need some time to process what I read. OK I hate to appear like an idiot this early but how the heckles do you do a quote?
Food for thought:
Gen 3:21 was not a sacrifice to atone for sins. Just because an animal is killed doesn't make it a sacrifice.
I didn't mean to imply that Gen 3:21 was an example of a sacrifice. It was only meant as a provoking thought of a model in use. i.e. Adam and Eve tried to cover their nakedness themselves with the fig leaves (I wonder if it were just their ummm ... unmentionables that they felt the need to cover or their whole selves? sorry, unrelated thought) But it was God, through the death of something (whatever animals were used for the hides, unless he just conjured some) that covered their nakedness.
I just see it as a potential analogy between us trying to take care of our sins through good deeds etc. but blood needs to be spilled, (like the animals providing the hides) Jesus'to cover our sins.
I'll probably get hollered at for that one. Again, I'm not professing doctrine here, just an intersting thought. (Perhaps a different thread.) I'm new to the whole Forum thing and this one seams well regulated.
I must depart for now, I will return. (how do you all have so much time to reply with these lengthy, well researched posts ???)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by purpledawn, posted 02-11-2005 7:18 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by purpledawn, posted 02-11-2005 11:59 AM Droxyn has not replied
 Message 136 by AdminJar, posted 02-11-2005 12:14 PM Droxyn has not replied

  
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