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Author Topic:   Are we prisoners of sin
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 82 of 454 (504828)
04-03-2009 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Cedre
04-03-2009 10:22 AM


Re: Returning to our original topic of Sin
For example if your mother says I love you, you'll just have to believe her or not because you can't put her or her love into a test tube. Certain things we have to take by faith, because reasoning will only bring us this far.
But she is real. I can see her, touch her.
The love and approving of my parents is much more real and important than any supernatural being.(a supernatural being that has at no time given any evidence that it exists)
I do not need a book to tell me how I should live by virtue of a fear of sin, rather I just needed my parents and community to show me this. If you plan on using the argument that my parents and community taught me based on the bible and sin let me dissuade you. My parents were lapsed catholics and religion was rarely discussed in extended families because were were a mixed catholic/congregationalist lot. Most of what I was taught in church was later proven to be the opposite of what is correct and good behaviour.
Your whole fantasy about sin, has had little to no affect on my life. Surprisingly, I am known in my community for my volunteer work. Yes I volunteer in the community even though I a don't think I will get some sort of "reward" in an afterlife.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Cedre, posted 04-03-2009 10:22 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Cedre, posted 04-03-2009 11:14 AM Theodoric has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 137 of 454 (505005)
04-06-2009 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Cedre
04-06-2009 10:35 AM


Re: Prisoners of Sin - Not!
You seem to be unwilling to consider the idea that people live their lives with no thought or idea of sin. I do not have a belief in sin. I have my personal idea of right and wrong but not sin. SIN REQUIRES A BELIEF IN THE SUPERNATURAL AND MYTHOLOGY.
1. Do you lie? How many times have you lied to save your butt?
Some times lying is a good thing. Being truthful 100% of the time would make a person a social misfit.
2. Do you steal, regardless of how small in value an item is? If someone in front of you in a crowd somewhere dropped something of great worth and you were the only one who noticed would you return that item to the owner or nip it?
I probably wouldn't take it. Somethings in my book are just wrong. Have I stolen? Of course everyone does, but that does not make a person evil or bad, it makes them human.
3. Do you look at women with lust? That is do you naughty daydreams about an attractive girl you've seen or met?
All the time and I even masturbate. These things are not wrong or evil. They are normal and natural. My wife knows I "lust" at other women and has no problems with it. This is just an example of christianity and its history of sexual repression.
4. Have you ever wanted something that belonged to someone else and if the chance to have it presented itself would you take it by the horns, or walk away?
How is this different than #2?
Ok this is just getting boring and stupid. Till you realize that a lot of us do not consider any of this sin, because we don't believe in sin, this thread is a waste.
Sin 1. transgression of divine law: the sin of Adam.
1 I don't believe in a divine law.
2 Sin is breaking a divine law.
3 Therefore, I have no belief in sin

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Cedre, posted 04-06-2009 10:35 AM Cedre has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 372 of 454 (506160)
04-23-2009 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by Woodsy
04-23-2009 10:27 AM


Re: Sin and Salvation
Paul had no contact with the "life" of a man referred to as Jesus the Christ. There is actually a quite valid argument that Paul had no awareness of an actual man called Jesus Christ. Rather he thought of Jesus existing on a spiritual plane. A plane of existence inhabited by spiritual beings above the plane that mankind existed. The religion he wrote about is very similar to other mystery religions of the Roman era.
I think a strong case can be made that christianity is actually more Paul based than Jesus based. If you read Paul's writings(the ones that scholarship show to be probably written by Paul) you can see that he had little or no awareness of the life and teachings of Jesus, as expressed in the Gospels. The Gospels date to after the writings of Paul.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Woodsy, posted 04-23-2009 10:27 AM Woodsy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by Woodsy, posted 04-23-2009 12:07 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 375 by purpledawn, posted 04-23-2009 12:38 PM Theodoric has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 376 of 454 (506171)
04-23-2009 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 373 by Woodsy
04-23-2009 12:07 PM


Re: Sin and Salvation
Check out Jesus Puzzle
Earl Doherty's books are very readable and delve deep into this whole subject

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by Woodsy, posted 04-23-2009 12:07 PM Woodsy has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 450 of 454 (506928)
04-30-2009 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 446 by Cedre
04-30-2009 10:40 AM


Re: Thread Not About Salvation
Hopefully they will close this thread soon.
quote:
Plus I have shown that people are slaves to sin accept true followers of Christ those who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:4), because they have died to sin and the law and are no longer captives of sin, and moreover I have used the bible to demonstrate this point.
No you didn't. But then again you have refused to even consider any other arguments though out this thread. You have been shown repeatedly that your arguments are lame and illogical. So I will just chock this up to the fact that I consider you delusional.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 446 by Cedre, posted 04-30-2009 10:40 AM Cedre has not replied

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