Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9163 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,421 Year: 3,678/9,624 Month: 549/974 Week: 162/276 Day: 2/34 Hour: 2/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Are we prisoners of sin
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 7 of 454 (504590)
03-31-2009 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Cedre
03-31-2009 6:12 AM


Prisioner of Sin
Hi Cedre,
Cedre writes:
I am a Christian and I will boldly tell you today that I still do struggle with sin from time to time;
I do not claim to be a Christian according to my definition and the Bibical definition of Christian is.
I am working on being Christlike every moment of every day.
The disciples were first called Christians at Antioch. Acts 11:26
The Greek word transliterated Christianos translated Christian has the definition of, "a follower of Christ".
That means someone who is living a life like Christ did.
Cedre writes:
Is it because I am evil and want to disobey God?
It is because you inherited a body that is separated from God and the nature of that body is to sin.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
That does not leave anybody out.
Cedre writes:
Now the gist of this thread. If man is inseparable from his sin than he must be doomed (Proverbs 13:6 Live right, and you are safe! But sin will destroy you; Romans 6:23 for the wages of sin is death.).
The first man in the Garden of Eden was given a rule to live and die by.
He was told the day you eat the fruit you will die.
He disobeyed God and death came to all mankind.
You can't get out of this world alive. You must die. After that the judgment.
Cedre writes:
And also what is the purpose of the Ten Commandments if they seem not capable of being put into practice.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
The law was to show us we could not satisfy a just God and that faith in God is required.
God offers man a free full pardon for all his sins and shortcommings. But man MUST believe that God IS and can and will do what He says He will do.
John 3:18 He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Man is unsaved because he will not accept God's offer of a pardon.
Not because he has not kept the 10 commandments, been baptized, feed the poor, or anyother good deed you can name.
Only because he has not believed.
A couple of my favorite verses are:
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
We do not have an option.
Jesus said His sheep follow Him and He gives them eternal life.
Jesus says His sheep will never perish.
Jesus says no certain being (Satan) can pluck them out of my hand.
A man must accept God's offer of a free full pardon or spend eternity separated from Him.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Cedre, posted 03-31-2009 6:12 AM Cedre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Phage0070, posted 03-31-2009 11:22 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 13 of 454 (504602)
03-31-2009 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phage0070
03-31-2009 11:22 AM


Re: Prisioner of Sin
Hi Phaqe,
Phage0070 writes:
This is due to his dual origin, conceived by God and a woman; unless of course you assume women to be sinless. Where am I going with this?
I have no Idea where you are headed.
But in the Garden of Eden a man was given a direct order by God.
That man chose on purpose to disobey God because the woman had eaten the fruit and was going to die. So he chose to eat and die with her.
No where does the Bible say by the woman sin entered into the world but it does say by one man sin entered into the world.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Man could not be involved in the production of the flesh body Jesus had.
Jesus had to have a body like the first man that disobeyed God and chose to eat the fruit.
For that reason God chose Mary to provide the flesh body for Jesus to inhabit during His earthly journey.
Was Mary sinless? By no streach of the imagination.
Phage0070 writes:
As an extension of above we can conclude that Christ was sinful and thus not a truly worthy scapegoat for all the rest of the sins of man.
You can conclude anything you desire.
You can conclude sin does not exist.
What you choose to believe or not to believe has no bearing on what is true or false.
There will be a point in your existence you will know the truth.
Is there some things that are right and others wrong?
Or does might make right?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Phage0070, posted 03-31-2009 11:22 AM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Phage0070, posted 03-31-2009 1:07 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 16 by Cedre, posted 03-31-2009 2:09 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 215 of 454 (505419)
04-11-2009 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Perdition
04-10-2009 12:17 PM


Re: God's Law(s)
Hi Perdition,
Perdition writes:
You just contradicted yourself. If Adam had perfect reasoning ability (which I would disagree with, since not being able to distinguish between right and wrong would be a large damper on the reasoning ability indeed), then his perfect reasoning led him to conclude that what God asked them to do was not worth following. I, in my less than perfect reasoning ability, can do no less than follow his example.
Could you explain in detail why you state Adam was not able to distinguish between right and wrong?
Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Man was given a direct order not to eat the fruit of a specific tree.
Nothing is said about it being good or evil, right or wrong.
He was just commanded not to do it.
The woman was deceived into eating the fruit of the forbidden tree.
The man was not deceived. He chose to eat the fruit.
But you are probably one of those that think the man was standing there when the woman was deceived.
The problem is that the Bible does not say that.
The translators added "with her" to the text as it is not translated from a Hebrew word.
Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
You notice she took of the fruit and did eat.
Her eyes were not opened. She did not know good and evil.
She gave to her husband and when he had eaten of the fruit their eyes were opened.
The woman was not commanded not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
That choice was given to the man.
He concluded when the woman had eaten of the fruit she would die so he chose to eat and die with her.
In Genesis 2:23, 24:
23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
The man had become one flesh with the woman and was willing to give up everything to share the fate of the woman even death.
He decided life was not worth living without her.
The man decided his desires was more important to him that God's desires.
Man is still making that decision today just as you have.
You are not a prisoner of sin.
But you are a prisoner of your sinful desires.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Perdition, posted 04-10-2009 12:17 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by Straggler, posted 04-11-2009 10:57 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 260 by Perdition, posted 04-13-2009 2:52 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 217 of 454 (505425)
04-11-2009 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Straggler
04-11-2009 10:57 AM


Re: Confused
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes:
So Eve ate the fruit but had broken no law as no law had ben given to her?
Is that correct?
I believe that to be correct.
Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Where there is not law there is no transgression.
The man had told the woman what God had said and even added a little to God's commandment. She mentioned to even touch the fruit.
But the commandment was given to the man before the woman existed.
Straggler writes:
Why did he conclude that if the fruit prohibition law had only been stipulated to him?
To eat the fruit carried a death penalty.
Therefore he assumed the woman would die and therefore he chose to eat and die with her.
Straggler writes:
Was Eve going to be punished by God and die for eating the fruit or not?
According to what Romans 4:15 says no.
Straggler writes:
If Adam did not eat the fruit after Eve would all have remained OK in Eden?
If the man had not disobey God and eaten of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil they would both still be in the garden of Eden today.
Straggler writes:
Well once Eve had been deceived into eating the fruit what exactly were Gods desires? This is very unclear.
God's desire then was the same it is today.
God desires man to obey.
1 Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey [is] better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
It is better to obey than sacrifice.
God wanted man to obey.
Just as He wants me to obey Him today.
He wants me to put Him first.
He then wants me to love everybody as much as I love myself.
I don't like being cold, hungry, hurt, or without a place to stay. Since I love myself I provide a way I don't have to experience those things.
If I love my neighbor as much as I love myself I will try to see that he/she does not have to suffer those things also.
And if everyone participated in that program we would eliminate all those things.
I can only do what my limited resources will allow me to do.
Straggler writes:
Frankly if there is a God, it is the inability of God to make his laws and desires equally clear to all men (and women) that is the major cause for so many not following him.
Straggler, it is not God's inability to make his laws clear.
They are specifically stated in no uncertain terms.
Many will not believe or accept them. The man ate the fruit so now man makes the decisions.
The major cause for people not following Him is man's sinful desires, you know like greed, and nothing matters except what I want.
But if you want to really put the blame where it should be as to the reason people don't know what God's law is, you have to place it on those who were instructed to carry the message to the world.
The Church.
Because of greed and the selfishness of man everything has been taught except what God commanded.
God teaches me to love, and I think a lot about that at this time of the year.
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Jesus lay down His life for me. I should be willing to do the same for you.
So we are not prisoners of sin.
We are prisoners of our selfish desires that comes from our ability to decide and choose what is good and what is evil.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Straggler, posted 04-11-2009 10:57 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by purpledawn, posted 04-11-2009 12:42 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 219 by Straggler, posted 04-11-2009 1:37 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 220 of 454 (505455)
04-11-2009 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Straggler
04-11-2009 1:37 PM


Re: Confused
Hi Straggler,
Why do you keep putting words in my mouth?
Straggler writes:
So Adam assumed that eating the fruit carried the death penalty for Eve as well as himself.
Read what I wrote and you quoted.
ICANT writes:
To eat the fruit carried a death penalty.
Therefore he assumed the woman would die and therefore he chose to eat and die with her.
The first man knew eating the fruit carried the death penalty.
God had made that plain to him.
That is the reason he assumed it applied to the first woman also.
Straggler writes:
So Adam assumed wrongly that Eve would be executed. This little misunderstanding of God's rules caused Adam to make the choice that led all of us all to pay the ultimate price.
The choice the man made is the reason for your existence today.
But there is no ultimate price you or anyone must pay unless you/they choose to do so.
That debt has been paid. A free full pardon has been offered, it only has to be received.
Straggler writes:
But even the first man completely misunderstood the one rule given to him.
He understood the rule.
The rule was given to the first man, "In the day ye eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you will die".
That was the rule with no explanation necessary.
He was not deceived and no one made him eat of the fruit.
He freely chose to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
No matter how you slice it and dice it.
So you are not a prisoner of sin unless you choose to be.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Straggler, posted 04-11-2009 1:37 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Straggler, posted 04-12-2009 11:06 AM ICANT has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024