Are we prisoners of sin

Disclaimer: I am a laymen when it comes to deep biblical study so my questions may seem stupid. Sorry in advance. I have 2 points and 2 questions.Points:It seems incorrect to say that Adam "was without sin for a time" since he had no other laws he could not break except for eating from the tree. It seems like he had nothing else to commit a "sin" with.Also, "sin" itself does not exist until after Adam and Eve disobey. So, I don't understand why you say that Adam was "without sin for a time" when sin itself does not exist.Questions:(1) How could Adam be "without sin" when sin itself does not exist?It's like being "not married" before marriage exists as a union.(2) If Adam doesn't know what a "sin" is, or that it is a "bad" thing, how can he be considered a sinner at all? Wouldn't a sinner be someone who consciously goes against a known rule for selfish reasons?Using my marriage analogy - (for lack of a better one): Lets say hypothetically marriage was mandatory, and anyone not married was breaking the law. However, I was not in a union with anyone during a time when "marriage" as a union didn't exist, and obviously not a law.How could I be considered a "law breaker" if, not only does the law not exist, but the union itself does not exist?

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"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

As I understand it, sin did not exist until after they disobeyed god, therefore no other sin could have been commited, since "sin" did not exist as a concept. The 10 Commandments seem a bit out of place in connection to Adam and Eve, would you not agree?The commandments, again as I understand it, where the laws given to the Israelites and for their decendants, were they not? This makes no sense to apply to Adam and Eve.They would not have understood the meaning of any of this. Unless Eve was an annoying nag, or vice versa, who would they kill? - doesn't apply Unless you mean beastiality, there were no other people around to be adulterous with. - doesn't apply From who? - doesn't apply Who were their neighbors? - doesn't apply They had no neighbors, no neighbor with a house, or an oxen, or a wife, or a servant, or an ass, etc. - this again, doesn't apply to Adam and Eve But they didn't have the concept of right or wrong, therefore the penalty, to Adam, didn't mean it was a good thing or a bad thing. Yes, they disobeyed but the disobedience didn't carry with it a right or wrong label because right and wrong are not concepts that Adam and Eve recognize until after they disobey. In other words, they were not equiped, mentally, to understand the wrongness of their actions. Yes, they understood they disobeyed but no, they had no idea it was wrong to do so. But clearly he did. Not only them but everyone after that is punished for Adam and Eve's actions, as the story goes, to include both you and I. Just in what way? He created a species that was incapable of determining right from wrong and then punishes them for doing wrong. How is that just?God is responsible for His creations short comings, since, by definition, He is the creator. If I design a car and it lacks a specific item, I am responsible for what happens due to this missing item. It was my fault, as the creator, for not including this item. It seems like God wants to pass the buck here and let us take the blame for something He lacked including in His creation.

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"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This does not follow.The innocence of a young child clearly points to a person without the capacity to decide what is right or wrong. Yes they were told "don't do that", but as you said they had the innocence of a child, so it's expected that someone with a child-like capacity will not follow all rules, their curiosity will get the better of them BECAUSE they did not know that disobedience was a bad thing.Further, naming animals, if this is really what you believe, is not that difficult a task and most children would be more than capable of naming things. Trust me my daughters name every single doll, toy animal or rock that they find. Apparently they were incapable of knowing right from wrong. But you stated that they had the innocence of a child, it follows that this person will make a mistake, not because of a lack of intelligence, but because their innocence is the basis for their curiosity.Also, they did not know what death was, nor were they able to know since death has not been introduced into their world.God designed them without this capability. Had He given them this ability surely they would not have done what they did, or at least an argument could be made that they would not have done what they did. This is Gods fault, not theirs. They did not create themselves and any parent who does bring a child into this, or any, world does so with the understanding that the child will need constant guidance. First, just because you are speculating that Adam was "smart" or "intelligent" does not make it so.Further, as you stated, Adam and Eve had the innocence of a child, meaning that they did not know bad things occur when one disobeys. So it fits that they would need to be watched over, especially knowing that evils, such as a deceptive snake, exist. God was not stupid, He knew the devil had intentions, just as I know that evil people out there have bad intentions when it comes to my children, and I watch over them like a good father. God left his creations alone, incapable of knowing good from evil and then punishes them, and NOT the snake, for disobeying. Instead God should have taken issue with the devil and protected Adam and Eve.His abandonment shows a lack of love for His children.And not only that, but every single human born into this would must carry with them the guilt of Adam and Eves disobedience, as if any of us have anything to do with that.Further, we must carry the guilt of God having to send His son Jesus to be crucified, as if that solves anything. All that does is place more guilt on us. We need to carry the burden of original sin - even though we had nothing to do with it. We have to carry the burden of Jesus - even though none of us were there. It's all on us, we are the pieces of shit that God created. We can't get it right. We fuck everything up. Yet, we reside in a universe were, by the stroke of a hand, all of this could go away, but instead God chooses to further blame us for the evils in HIS universe.Can you not see the obvious bullshit in this story?- Oni

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"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

God gave you a brain to think for yourself...man gave you the Bible to control and repress that ability. God gave you a brain to think for yourself...man gave you the Bible to control and repress that ability. Cedre, the only prisoner here is you, dude. You have been made to feel such a heavy guilt for just being human. You have not allowed yourself an opinion on your own life. You have been indoctrinated into a depressing view of humanity that place a burden from birth on organisms that had no chioce of being born. If this is your belief then you are living a sad life void of any personal love for yourself, and yet you claim that a loving god exists and has you in mind.Religion is a false ideology. God is nothing more than mans inability to explain nature. Break the spell, man. For your own sanity, don't live with this ever lingering guilt that you are not worthy of some invisible mans love. You're better than that as a human being.Just some advise. Hope you don't mind it too much. But since you are preaching to us, I felt you should get some preaching in return.- Oni

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"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

Rahvin beat me to the joke!!! At any rate...run off sentences are...sucky..and stuff. Shit!

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"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky